A Layman's Guide to Shrinking HDDVD Size on Hard Drive

[rlung]

A Layman's Guide to Shrinking HDDVD Size on Hard Drive

12/24/07



Background:

With titles coming in at a hefty size, I wanted a more efficient way to store and watch movies on a HTPC. With a HDDVD / BD collection currently spanning over 3 rigs, I'm finding myself beginning to delete older backups to store more current ones, quite contrary to a true HTPC mentality. I also find storing the entire folder structure on a hard drive terribly inefficient, an HTPC in my humble opinion should store the movie (1 each vid, audio, sub stream) only, if I want to watch director commentaries or deleted scenes I'll get up and put the disc in...or possible find someone to do it.

Also, call me crazy but I absolutely need to have subtitles in motion pictures, I've been spoiled by it and never looked back.

Link to Bluray version:

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?p=78049#post78049

My goals:

1. subtitles
2. no transcoding
3. simple (for me, that means no graphs), fast (relatively) and easily replicated title to title with consistent results



Programs I Used:

AnyDVDHD (courtesy of Slysoft) - without this amazing program none of what follows is possible, well, without violating goal # 3.

EVOdemux 0.627b7 (courtesy of pelican9 @ doom9) - demuxes .evo file to elementary stream / rebuilds .evo

SUPrip 0.91 (courtesy of taktaal @ doom9) - converts .sup to .srt w/ocr

Subtitle Workshop (courtesy of urusoft) - corrects duration, syntax errors in .srt

Nero 8 v8.2.8.0 Showtime w/ HD-DVD / Bluray plugin - playback of .evo with .srt



Observations:

1. I've purposely kept subtitles in rebuilt evo even though we're gonna use externals, eventually I'd like for a media player to read these natively.

2. Enabling external subtitles also disables hardware acceleration, although I’m not entire confident Showtime correctly uses it like PDVD.

3. My original guide centered around modifying the .xpl file with playback through PDVD, a method that is considerably easier. I noticed, however, moderate frame stuttering about a min after a chapter skip in certain titles, contrary to goal #3.

4. If we’re not interested in subtitles, we can skip steps 3 – 5.

5. I didn’t use a subtitle repository like www.opensubtitles.org which would again eliminate steps 3 – 5 because (1) the HD/BD versions are scarce at the moment and (2) I wanted to develop a method that doesn’t rely on another party.

6. Total time from start to finish is around ~35min per title (10 step two, 5 step three, 5-20 step four, 5-20 step five) . Steps 4 and 5 are the most time consuming although once we learn the ropes it drops considerably.


Step 0

Backup our HD-DVD to hard drive with AnyDVDHD


Step 1

- Our goal is to find & identify the appropriate 2 .evo files -

Search within c:\targetmovie\HVDVD_TS\xxxxx.evo (replace "c:\targetmovie" with what’s appropriate) and search for the largest 2 files, usually labeled "feature_1" & "feature_2" or "PEVOB_1" & "PEVOB_2", that’s our movie split in 2 separate parts. If it isn't labeled as such but we are sure its the movie, rename both to one of the above.


Step 2

- Our goal is to rebuild .evo -

Open EVOdemux

Ok, lets browse for our target movie, in this case The Matrix Reloaded

Options tab

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9282/hd2afe1.jpg

Video/Audio tab

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7272/hd2btv0.jpg

Subpicture tab

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4080/hd2cnd2.jpg

For the Matrix Reloaded we’re choosing

Main movie VC-1 video stream
English DD+ audio stream (alternative would be MLP, i.e. DD TrueHD)
English subtitle

All to be remuxed into “m:\1 streaming HDDVD folder”

REBUILD


Step 3

- Our goal is to extract subtitle only stream for further processing -

Still using EVOdemux lets uncheck both VC-1 stream & DD+ stream, leaving checked subpicture.00.

DEMUX



Step 4

- Our goal is to translate the .sup file into a more editing friendly .srt one -

Open Suprip

Open .sup created in step 3

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/898/hd4aih9.jpg
OCR

Take notice of the 3 options, adjusting them will greatly speed up this process, use trial & error for these values as they aren’t set in stone. Suprip will normally have bitmap characters that it can’t identify, manually enter them until we get to the end.

(continued)

[rlung]

(continued)

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6476/hd4bdu1.jpg

Save as .srt file

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9088/hd4cxw7.jpg



Step 5

- Our goal is to edit .srt file to correct any grammatical, time-duration, or OCR errors -

Open subtitle workshop

Open .srt files created in step 4

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7664/hd5ato6.jpg

Use <control I> to check for errors, pay special attention to duration errors, where subtitle show & hide times are identical
Use <F7> to grammar check

Save file


Step 6

Enable external subtitles in Showtime

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8513/hd6amw5.jpg

We’re done!

Just make sure both .evo & .srt files are located in same folder



Results:

column A = full movie backed up to hard drive (GB)
column B = this guide

A / B

Apollo 13.....(26.4 / 18.0)
End of Days.....(27.7 / 18.3)
Lethal Weapon.....(19.7 / 18.8 )
Lethal Weapon 2.....(20.1 / 18.9)
Payback.....(19.3 / 15.4)
Pulse.....(20.7 / 12.6)
Serenity.....(19.6 / 14.9)
Shrek 3.....(25.4 / 14.2)
The Hulk.....(27.6 / 20.6)
The Matrix Reloaded.....(24.8 / 14.3)
The Matrix Revolution.....(21.2 / 13.5)
The Thing.....(32.5 / 12.7)

02/24/08 update:

American Gangster.....<25.4 / 21.8>
Bourne Ultimatum.....<25.1 / 15.3>
Casino.....<27.8 / 22.6>
Goodfellas.....<23.6 / 17.4>
Traffic.....<27.7 / 23.7>


Now that’s a more palatable pill to swallow.

Alas, nothing written here is new info, I just humbly compiled a method that works for me and hopefully can help others.

Thank you for reading.

Ryan

[Anthony1uk]

Thanks for this very helpful guide rlung.

My only question about this is, why can't Slysoft make an easy to use All in One app to do all of this to compliment AnyHDDVD.

Maybe make it so you don't need to rip the entire disk to the hard drive first only remove the movie one language track and one subtitle track with no transcoding simply unneeded extra's/languages being removed.

[GigaBoy]

I have to agree...While this guide make my tasks very efficient (comparatively), I would like to see slysoft develop an application to perform these features; In fact, they don't even have to come up with a new name. They already have the mux of AnyDVD and CloneDVD...they need to develop CloneDVDHD and bundle it with AnyDVDHD.

We should remember to give credit where credit is due, however. SlySoft has been somewhat of a "Pioneer" (for lack of a better word) as far as the "on-the-fly" decryption of DVD's, HD-DVD's and BD's, and I know it's hard enough for them to keep up with the everchanging difficulties of the restrictions of new HD titles. Seems like each new/update version is to unlock abilities for a single title.

Give it time, and I'm sure we will see a solution that we'll all be satisfied with (for a while, anyway...LOL)

-Geoffrey

[sfc]

Nicely done.

[captain_video]

Do you need anything other than the rebuilt EVO file for playback? I assume you're just selecting the single file for playback and not playing back from a folder unless you have to include the original XPL file along with it. I generally don't need subtitles, except with just a few movies, so it appears that all I need to do is remux the two feature.EVO files into a single large file and discard everything else. I've got Nero Showtime with the HD-DVD and BD plug-in but playback pretty much sucks using it. Will this also work with PDVD?

[rlung]

Do you need anything other than the rebuilt EVO file for playback? I assume you're just selecting the single file for playback and not playing back from a folder unless you have to include the original XPL file along with it. I generally don't need subtitles, except with just a few movies, so it appears that all I need to do is remux the two feature.EVO files into a single large file and discard everything else. I've got Nero Showtime with the HD-DVD and BD plug-in but playback pretty much sucks using it. Will this also work with PDVD?

That would be correct no folder structure or xpl required / wanted, all we will have is a single xxxxx.evo.

Showtime / MPC is my choice for playing back raw evo's, PDVD most definitely is not.

Good Luck

Ryan

[captain_video]

I tried the process on "The Heartbreak Kid" and remuxed to two feature EVO files to one large file. Playback using Nero Showtime (Nero version 7) with the HD plug-in was downright awful. The audio was several seconds out of sync and it stuttered all over the place. I thought I read a comment somewhere about remuxing the EVO files twice to fix the sync issues (perhaps that was in the Blu-Ray thread?).

Is it necessary to mux it again? Is there a difference between Nero Showtime 7 and 8 as far as HD playback? I couldn't even get the rebuilt file to play back in PDVD. I'd love to get this working as I just maxed out all three 750GB drives in my HTPC with HD-DVD and BD rips. I'm running out of places to install more drives unless I go with an external RAID array or a bunch of USB drives.

[James]

Maybe make it so you don't need to rip the entire disk to the hard drive first only remove the movie one language track and one subtitle track with no transcoding simply unneeded extra's/languages being removed.
You don't need to rip first (which is the wonderful thing about AnyDVD nobody seems to realize).

[rlung]

I tried the process on "The Heartbreak Kid" and remuxed to two feature EVO files to one large file. Playback using Nero Showtime (Nero version 7) with the HD plug-in was downright awful. The audio was several seconds out of sync and it stuttered all over the place. I thought I read a comment somewhere about remuxing the EVO files twice to fix the sync issues (perhaps that was in the Blu-Ray thread?).

Is it necessary to mux it again? Is there a difference between Nero Showtime 7 and 8 as far as HD playback? I couldn't even get the rebuilt file to play back in PDVD. I'd love to get this working as I just maxed out all three 750GB drives in my HTPC with HD-DVD and BD rips. I'm running out of places to install more drives unless I go with an external RAID array or a bunch of USB drives.

Hey Cap

Double remuxing is normally reserved for bluray + seamless branching discs, I haven't encounted a xxxxx.evo that required it.

I'm not entirely convinced that nero 7 showtime w/bluray plugin is ready for prime time, nero 8.2.8 is. I'm gonna believe our issue lies here although we can still try some things.

During remuxing, if not already lets try to uncheck both "adjust PTS of the evo to follow" & "rebuild ADV_PCKS," exactly like the pic in guide. I know thats counter-intuitive but it helped me on certain discs. We'll know if we need those checked if showtime incorrectly interprets movie duration during playback.

If thats unsuccessful lets try rebuilding .evo with another language selected.

Eac3to, courtesy of madshi @ doom9, is becoming a nice alternative to EVOdemux, recently added the ability to rebuild .evo's, also has the option of a nice GUI, courtesy of The_Keymaker @ doom9.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=125966

Good Luck

Ryan

[elmatson]

I did all of the above . Showtime says it does not support that file type...

[rlung]

I did all of the above . Showtime says it does not support that file type...

If we're experiencing the same problems as Cap, even with nero 8.2.8 & BD/HD plugin, I'd suggest verifying whether its an evo rebuilding or playback issue.

Sarah99 had an awesome guide to getting HD/BD playback through MPC with the proper filters & merits.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=892527

Good Luck

Ryan

[captain_video]

I got a copy of Nero 8.2.8.0 and installed it and now the .EVO file plays fine with no stuttering or sync problems. If it works as well with the Blu-Ray disc rips then I'll be busy all weekend reducing the size of all my HD rips.:D

[rlung]

Thats fantastic news.

[Anthony1uk]

You don't need to rip first (which is the wonderful thing about AnyDVD nobody seems to realize).
Thanks James, but I was meaning with regards to backing up of HD-DVD movies.

Similar to how backing up DVD's allows me to, with the help of CloneDVD or DVDShrink, do on the fly rips of the movie from an original disk without ever needing to rip the entire disk, i.e movie, menu's, extra's and all to the hard drive first.

Thus removing the need to then do another full encoding process to extract the main movie from this entire disk backup on the hard drive.

It is just with regards to Hidef and with the disks currently going up to 50GB each. The whole two stage ripping process will use a lot of hard drive space. Therefore an on the fly HD-DVD/Blu-Ray movie ripper would be an excellent benefit for backup purposes.

So can I ask are Slysoft currently working on developing an On the Fly HD-DVD/Blu-Ray ripper that can do what CloneDVD can do with ripping SD-DVD movies?.

Thanks
Anthony

[drsmithdtv]

Having seen this guide I tried to see if I could play shrunken EVO's with PowerDVD via modified XPL.

Initial playback looked good and was without the stutters that I get when trying to play the shrunken EVO directly with PowerDVD. Unfortunately playback problems did emerge with further testing.

I found that when playing back the shrunken EVO's via XPL, the playback time was reduced on PowerDVD. For example when I demuxed and rebuild the first EVO from Transformers, rebuilding the H.264 video track only resulted in an EVO that had a playback length of 1h:00m:24s on PowerDVD. Rebuilt with two tracks (video and 6ch audio) the playback length was about 1h:04m. Rebuilt with all tracks the playback time was 1h:11m:49s which is the same as the original EVO.

I can only guess as to a cause. Perhaps in the corresponding MAP file there is a reference that relates the playback time of the EVO to it's size.

[drsmithdtv]

With playback of shrunken EVO's via an english trial version of TotalMedia Theatre, I have have not experienced the above problem.

I therefore conclude that in relation to the above, PowerDVD is at fault.

[heydude1]

I found this yesterday at Doom 9 after a short google search.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=129001

I hadn't been looking for any help since before Christmas so was excited to see this. Good to see it is stickied here.

Rebuilt two HD DVD's and a Blu ray. Single files with DD and primary subtitles. They play great with Nero 8 - Showtime with the plugin. So the HD DVD rips are both about 17 gig and the Blu ray is 26.3 gig. Won't take long to fill up a couple of large HD's.

[<><]

does this method make a smaller file as compared to the editing of the .xpl method? I currently edit the xpl and delete unneeded evos and this works perfectly, without any stuttering etc on my htpcs.

thanks

[eclipse98]

does this method make a smaller file as compared to the editing of the .xpl method? I currently edit the xpl and delete unneeded evos and this works perfectly, without any stuttering etc on my htpcs.

thanks

Yes, when you modify .xpl and remove junk .evos you still have all unwanted audio streams in your .evos. This method removes these audio streams with rather significant storage savings (average 20-30%).

Now, the only problem I have have with this method is playing new .EVO file -- when I try playing it directly with PowerDVD it is shuttering (same happens when I play original file as well) and I have not been able to figure out how to play it no matter what I tried -- it appears PowerDVD does need XPL and MAP files for proper HD DVD playback and with this method no matching MAPs are created -- I tried to re-use original MAPs but still can't make it work properly.

If anybody was able to play EVO files created by this method in PowerDVD would you share your success story ?

Thanks, Davie.

[rlung]

Hey Davie

Give Showtime (crazy easy) or MPC (challenging) a stab at it and you won't look back.

I can't get PDVD to even open the raw .evo file without erroring out.

Good Luck

Ryan

[eclipse98]

Hey Davie

Give Showtime (crazy easy) or MPC (challenging) a stab at it and you won't look back.

I can't get PDVD to even open the raw .evo file without erroring out.

Good Luck

Ryan

Ryan, I am using MPC for upconverting SD DVDs. I'm not sure if it is possible to use it both for SD and HD playback since ffdshow merit values are different, once I changed merit values for ffdshow audio and video decoders MPC started crashing on SD DVD playback -- I asked on AVS forum if anybody is using MPC for both HD and SD and got no feedback -- I am not sure if it is even possible unless you have to reconfigure it every time you switch between SD and HD -- if you know how would appreciate if you can share. :)

[rlung]

Hey Davie

You are absolutely correct.

The ffdshow merit values are different with respect for HD / SD material, being somewhat cumbersome switching back & forth.

What I did in MediaPortal was set up MPC as the standard external player for SD material with "normal" ffdshow values for .mkv / .ts / .vob sources.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/rlung/mp1a.jpg

Then with MP's built-in "my programs" plugin, set up showtime for HD material, i.e. .evo / .m2ts sources.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/rlung/mp2a.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/rlung/mp3a.jpg

Its definitely not hard to set up and the ability to have 2 seperate players available in MP's front-end gives a warm & fuzzy feeling. To watch SD material I navigate to "my videos", select a movie, MPC opens up; for HD to "my programs", select and showtime opens up...simplicity ad infinitum. On a side note, this setup is leaps & bounds beyond my tried & true ps3 / tversity steaming method, once a GGC-H20L finds its way home both the ps3 / xbox hddvd drive will begin to look mighty awkward.

Good Luck

Ryan

[jamieuk147]

Any reason why when playing this movie in Arcsoft it seems to play as if it has been fast forwarded ?

[eclipse98]

You are absolutely correct.

The ffdshow merit values are different with respect for HD / SD material, being somewhat cumbersome switching back & forth.

Its definitely not hard to set up and the ability to have 2 seperate players available in MP's front-end gives a warm & fuzzy feeling. To watch SD material I navigate to "my videos", select a movie, MPC opens up; for HD to "my programs", select and showtime opens up...simplicity ad infinitum. On a side note, this setup is leaps & bounds beyond my tried & true ps3 / tversity steaming method, once a GGC-H20L finds its way home both the ps3 / xbox hddvd drive will begin to look mighty awkward.

Ryan

Ryan, this is similar set up I am using for playing SD (MPC) and HD (PowerDVD), except I am not using MediaPortal -- the issue however remains with PowerDVD inability to play EVOs directly, hence I have to keep original EVOs with XPL file. There is some encouraging posts I've seen this morning where MPC is set with codecs from new Arcsoft player -- I will give it a try for raw EVO playback :).

[rlung]

Hey Davie

Where might I find that posting?

edit:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=892527&page=9

[eclipse98]

Hey Davie

Where might I find that posting?

edit:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=892527&page=9

Here is another one:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=982000

And also here on Slysoft forum posted by Sarah:

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=12549

I set MPC with Arcsoft decoders and it works very well so far -- I am able to play raw EVOs and M2TS from HDD.

When I tried raw EVO from Arcsoft Player I either got no sound or it was playing in fastforward mode, appears to be a problem with audio decoder.

When I tried raw M2TS from Arcsoft Player I could not get 5.1 sound out of it, only stereo -- I use SPDIF for sound.

Playing M2TS files from MPC also appears to fix video freezing problem I was geting with PowerDVD on seamless branching disks.

Overall I am pretty happy with the solution as all I have to do in order to play HD from MPC is block ffdshow decoders, when I want to play SD I unblock ffdshow and block Arcsoft decoders. Not very pretty but all it takes is 10 seconds and I don't have to mess with merit values, etc. :)

[jamieuk147]

thanks so much mate !!!!!! so fast and easy to do minus doing subs.

Can I just ask do you still get 100% HD picture Quality using EVO demux ?? or does it lower the picture Quality slightly?

[rlung]

Thanks Jamie

Video & sound quality is untouched & transparent

[jamieuk147]

It would seem that your method seems to choose Dolby Digital + as the main Audio when there is Dolby True HD which is better sound Quality. I understand that none of us have HDMI sound cards to transfer True HD but is there some way of selecting True HD instead ??

Just that I plan on buying a sound card that has HDMI and supports True HD in the next few weeks so makes sense when available on the disk to choose True HD as my Audio method in EVO demux.

In shorter words is there a easy way to find out in EVOX demux which channel is True HD so I can select it, under the Video/Audio tab ?

On the back of my Perfect storm HD DVD it says it has TRUE HD audio but under Video/Audio Tab in demux it just says DD + stream.00 etc :confused:

once again thanks for all your hard testing and input ! :clap:

[rlung]

Hey Jamie

Absolutely, selecting Dolby True HD, or any other stream(s) would simply be a matter of checking it off instead of DD+ in Evodemux. I used it in guide for easy reference and personally for size reduction.

Good Luck

Ryan

P.S. After my morning diet pepsi, realized I didn't actually answer the question.

Evodemux should (will) pick up the trueHD stream and list it as MLP, the guide has a pic of it in the Matrix Reloaded. Try unchecking fast reading or raise the number and rescan.

[<><]

hey i just wanna thank you for your writeup, i had no idea about EVODemux (or the one for blu-ray for that matter)...it's saving me a lot of GBs on my server!

Just one question, i'm only interested in the main movie and only keeping the main movie and 1 audio track...doing this (either for hd-dvd or blu-ray) won't make it less future proof right? in the sense that players would still be able read and decode the combined .evos and the audio tracks etc?
b/c i'm gonna convert my entire hd-dvd/blu-ray collection this way and i don't something better (or the "right way") to come out later and me having to re-rip all my movies.
sorry if its not making a lot of sense, i just dont wanna go thru the hassel of doing all this and then find out oops, u shoulda left it in its previous format with all the .xpls etc.

thanks

[rlung]

Thank you for the kind words.

Playback wise, these files are merely raw versions of originals, even open source players can decode them with the proper filters. If tomorrow Nero & the gang decided to prohibit .m2ts playback, I'd just use Arcsoft filters in MPC and call it a day.

On the flip side, both these methods do change the playback mechanism from the original; no xpl for HD-DVD nor mpls for Bluray. In the sense that if tomorrow Slysoft made a true HD/BD shrink in the same vein as DVD shrink, it most certainly gonna require/demand access to the original, intact folder structure...these .evo's & .m2ts we've been rebuilding wouldn't suffice.

However, I do not believe that this is the wrong way either now or when a 1-click HD/BD shrink method comes along. There are so many variations on results regarding playback of even normal & untouched HD/BD discs; PDVD vs Arcsoft, which firmware works for what discs, to .iso or not... its a pretty tough minefield to navigate and stay abreast upon.

In fact, with a little patience and powerful computer, its relatively straightforward (still can't say easy) to take our newly made .evo's & m2ts, transcode to x264, either stay at 1080p or downres to 720p, and remux to .mkv. That would put it in the most future proof container, open source.

Good Luck

Ryan

[rabidrabbit]

care to explain the method of transcoding our shrunk .evos to h.264 in an mkv or avi? I have followed the numerous doom9 forum threads about it, but haven't been able to get the audio to work at all. I would greatly appreciate it

[rlung]

care to explain the method of transcoding our shrunk .evos to h.264 in an mkv or avi? I have followed the numerous doom9 forum threads about it, but haven't been able to get the audio to work at all. I would greatly appreciate it

Well, thats a great question but outside the bounds of this thread. I'm assuming we're using Eac3to, Madshi's thread @ doom9 might be the best place to ask it.

I did have a guide pending with those goals in mind but the process currently involves, in my humble opinion, investing too much time with non-equal return in space savings, I'd much rather watch a 1080 movie than transcode/mux one.

The knowledge is out there, maybe not front page but its there.

Here's one from mic @ abhdtv

http://www.abhdtv.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8774

Good Luck

Ryan

[<><]

thanks for your reply...size wise I guess nothing would change (original quality) if AnyDVD did come out w/ their own version of DVDShrink for HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, but it would just leave everything looking like an original hd-dvd/blu-ray (file structure wise etc).

Last question, instead of combining the hd-dvd's into 1, can I just demux each individual .evo and keep the .xpl file (i edit it anyway, taking out audio streams i don't use and subtitles and keep only main movie) As for the .map files, i dunno exactly what they contain but i dont think it should be a problem....this way i can have Chapters in my movies? I dunno how i'd do that w/ blu-ray tho...
edit: a little reading online says what I said above might not be possible :(...i'll try it when i get home neway :D

thanks

[rlung]

Absolutely, keeping the evo's seperate and modifiying the xpl is a good (only) way to keep chapters.

I did notice some deviations though, try it and see if we experience the same.

mod individual evos
mod xpl file
during playback in PDVD, try a chapter jump...for me, 15 secs later it'll stutter like hell for ~5 sec then return to normal.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=877470&highlight=editing+xpl

these gents also were experiencing the same but the solution didn't take on me.

Good Luck

Ryan

P.S. I just took notice, thats your thread... great question that helped me a lot. Perhaps you should be instructing me?

Good Luck

Ryan

[<><]

heh yeh i was the author of that, but the people in there weren't demuxin, just editing the .xpl and experiencing loss in controls for FF, RW etc (which later he said was caused by not editing the .xpl correctly)....with all my hd-dvd's and edited xpls i have perfect playback with all my hd-dvds.

now, onto what i was going to try...the movie i used was Fearless. I demuxed both .evo files exactly the same, and copied over the folder structure, map files, etc. The movie loaded up fine, started playing fine. I tried to skip a chapter, and it skipped chapters fine and I did not experience the stutter that you say you experience 15secs after a chapter skip. BUT, after watching the movie for a while, the movie started to skip, as if it was going a little bit fast forward and playing, going fast forward and playing....it didn't stop till i manually either skipped a chapter again or slid the navigation slider to somewhere else...then it started playing fine again.
edit: eh you're right, it does happen after a chapter skip like 15-20 seconds later...starts skipping like crazy...

So this method of trying to keep the same file structure with editing the xpl and demuxing the .evos but keeping the same map files etc isn't working for me :/

[rlung]

I remember reading awhile back about how the .map specs are still under wraps, price of admission was in the $25,000 range with generous sprinkles of NDA's.

[hddvdsupporter]

any new informations about demuxing an evo file and put it into the original folders with all the map files etc.?

i tried the whole thing with CRANK.
for disc 1 i deleted the l1_MainMovie.evo/map and bup files and take a smaller one (black.evo/map/bup) from another hd-dvd movie and renamed it to l1_MainMovie.evo...

So disc 1 worked absolutly fine (burned on dvd+r dl)

I tried the same with the second part of the movie (l1_MainMovie.evo..)
I deleted the l0_MainMovie.evo/map and bup and renamed the l1_MainMovie.evo to l0_MainMovie.evo . if i renamed the l1_MainMovie.bup and map also to l0.. disc won't play - Black Screen!
so i don't renamed the bup and map file, the movie played but after 15seconds the movie stutters right as you said. :-(

[DVD Mansion]

That would be correct no folder structure or xpl required / wanted, all we will have is a single xxxxx.evo.

Showtime / MPC is my choice for playing back raw evo's, PDVD most definitely is not.

Good Luck

Ryan

I am able to do exactly as you posted but when I click on the evo file to be played after I do what you've stated the file plays fine but there is no audio what am i doing wrong?

I have 3 seperate files now a .mpa plus a .mpv plus a .sup how can I watch the movie with sound? There is no sound.

I have an HTPC so i don't care to burn to a disc just to play it off the pc.


Thanks
Chris

[DVD Mansion]

Trying it again, I think I found my mistake.

After following instructions here I hit the Demux button instead of the rebuild.

I think it must be this I will know soon enough.

Chris

[rlung]

Trying it again, I think I found my mistake.

After following instructions here I hit the Demux button instead of the rebuild.

I think it must be this I will know soon enough.

Chris

Hey Chris

That should be the head on the nail, rebuild instead of demux.

Good Luck

Ryan

[DVD Mansion]

YES that was it, thanks to everyone for these wonderful programs & how to guides.

Cheers
Chris


Hey Chris

That should be the head on the nail, rebuild instead of demux.

Good Luck

Ryan

[<><]

rlung,
not to get off topic, but, have you noticed a stairstepping/jaggies when using showtime in file mode?
like so: http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/7476/showtimedy4.jpg (make sure u enlarge the pic if ur browswer auto resizes)
left is the movie playing in showtime, right is the same frame captured...

[rlung]

That does look unusual, looks like some kind of interlacing issue. I remember Showtime's hardware acceleration giving all kinds of problems for me, ended up disabling it.

I wonder if another player would duplicate the results?

[<><]

it doens't happen to me in powerdvd with the same demuxed movie..only in showtime...
a member at avsforum says the reason for this is:
The problem is that Showtime uses VMR9 in file mode ad Overlay in disc mode. VMR9 windowless doesn't work in Vista correctly. It doesn't work in TT 2.6 either - also jaggies everywhere. My solution for file playback is to use the Nero filters mit MPC and EVR output. Looks perfect.

it's pretty annoying to watch a movie with that happening :/

[REDknight]

When using EVOdemux it appears that whether I choose just VC-1 stream 0 or VC-1 stream 0 & 1 that the output file is exactly the same. (King Kong)

Is there really two video streams in emmbedded in the EVO file? If so why does the output always the same size?

BTW my end result is to burn on a BD-R disc but I can't seem to get the whole thing under the 25GB mark.

[rlung]

Hey Red

I don't know why some discs have two video streams labeled, my experience like yours have been that they are identical. If memory serves me even in the .xpl there was no distinction.

I never archived that disc but if we're close to ~25GB the only option without re-encoding is to downgrade the audio.

Don't hate the messenger.

Ryan

[REDknight]

Thanks Ryan for reply... as for the 2 streams I figured as much that it was bogus. I did compress the DD+ stream to AC3, and the resulting video.ts plays fine on the PC but when i burn it to BD-RE I get jitter picture and no sound what so ever.

I know I read earlier today that someone else had that same experience but I can't locate it now as to what to try to remedy the situation... any ideas?

[rlung]

Hey Red

I haven't yet started archiving HD-DVD's into BD yet aside for a few classics, my knowledge is limited.

For the jittery-ness, King Kong being a VC-1 title, did we pull down the frame rate to 23.976?

Good Luck

Ryan

[REDknight]

Well now that you mention it that's exactly what it is because when i play it back on my PC where there is dialog the audio is not sync'd. Because i used the -StripPulldown when i converted the audio.

I followed your sticky but I must have missed where to set 3:2 pulldown. If you don't mind me asking at what stage (proggy) do I tell it to remove the 3:2 PD?

BTW Really aprreciate the help, I'm just tinkering right now so this isn't critical. ;-)

[rlung]

Hey Red

The 23.976 pulldown only applies for HD-DVD (specifically VC-1) to Bluray conversion. I've been using both DonCarlos's guide:

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=13783

and glen8's:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=134227

...great references.

Under the "Layman's Guide HD-DVD" there is no conversion so frame rate issues do not matter.

Good Luck

Ryan

[mentalmidget]

Let me start out by saying the Blu-Ray guide for shrinking is the bomb: #1 it plays 10 times more smooth than from the disc (I can actually have 3-4 other major processes going on in the background and playback is no problem) #2 I don't have to watch 8 shameless self promoting crap trailers (ie the Punisher) b4 a movie #3 My movies that downsampled audio actual play in DD now! awesome now on to my question...I'm following this process but my output stutter (especially at the beginning). I know you guys say it is PowerDVD, but I am not sold on Nero. I tried about 10 movies on Nero and 3 of them failed: #1 Transformers stuttered during major CGI scenes (the entire movie!) #2 Talladega Nights & Black Hawk Down switched the center and right front channels on my audio system (dialogue was coming out of my right channel). Is there any alternative available to cure the stuttering issue(using PowerDVD as the output software) when shrinking HD-DVD? I've used TSSplitter to join the 2 streams which knocks about 30% off the size, but I would love to get rid of some of the 15% uneeded audio and subtitle tracks. oh yeah my system is AMD Dual Core Opteron, 2GB of RAM, Nvidia 8800 GTS Thnx!

[rlung]

Hey MM

Thank you for the compliment, though this is the HD-DVD section.

I may be in the minority but I cannot get PDVD 3319a to play most shrunken Blurays, haali splitter notwithstanding. I'm watching as I type BHD on Nero 8 and the dialogue in on correct channel.

This is not an accusation of any sort but I know that the cracked Bluray_HD-DVD plugin for Nero that is so prevalent is not a 100% golden, even on a legitimate Nero 8 license.

Good Luck

Ryan

[SwissyJim]

HI...
first off, GREAT guide! I use it a lot. I am running into a problem tho... evodemux is locking up on me quite frequently. I'm not sure if it's something on my system, the movie I am doing or the way I am using the program?

One question I have, do you need to change the extensions in the options for each movie? May be a stupid question, but I gotta ask. Say a movie, like King Kong, is a VC-1 video based. Do I have to change from mpv to vc1 in the options screen? it's getting really frustrating to have my system lock up time after time.

I'm going to try moving a few HD-DVD rips to my other system and try evodemux on it and see if it's the other system. Are there any known issues with firewalls, virus proggies, anydvd HD, etc?

or maybe another program that does the same thing as evodemux? I'm not looking to compress, change formats or anything like that - just strip out the extra crap like audio commentaries and subtitles. Raw EVO works just great with my system with Showtime...

[rlung]

Hey Jim

No, switching the output format wouldn't make any difference as it doesn't affect the underlying codec, it only affects what programs can "see" the file.

EVOdemux hasn't been updated recently, good alternative progs for .evo manipulation would be eac3to or, I haven't tried it myself, TSremux.

Good Luck

Ryan

[SwissyJim]

Hey Jim

No, switching the output format wouldn't make any difference as it doesn't affect the underlying codec, it only affects what programs can "see" the file.

EVOdemux hasn't been updated recently, good alternative progs for .evo manipulation would be eac3to or, I haven't tried it myself, TSremux.

Good Luck

Ryan

thanks Ryan... turns out I can do them non-stop on my other machine. not sure if it's something loaded that interferes, or the fact that the good machine is a quad-core intel and the locking up one is a dual core AMD?

the other thing I noticed is that I tried reading from the VPL file and if I do that, I get all the good info like what sound track is what language, which subtitles are which... but if i then rebuild I get no sound!

I'llstick with what works tho - I don't have a HD DVD drive in the other machine tho, so I had to get a big portable drive to move things - even over the network it takes awhile to move the movies!

I'll try the others you mentioned as well - thanks

[drsmithdtv]

Has anyone tried playing remuxed video + audio (no subtitles) from modified XPL with Arcsoft TMT ?

Demuxing and remuxing with EVOdemux, the results were encouraging with TMT version 2.1.6.105 a few months ago but using TMT version 2.1.6.110, playback stalls at the end of the first remuxed EVO. TMT version 2.1.6.110 also crashes when playing some EVO's directly.

UPDATE:
After further testing I have found that TMT version 110 will continue onto the second rebuilt EVO with playback from XPL but only when all the demuxed tracks are rebuilt into the EVO. This is a different result to what I had with TMT version 105 and a somewhat useless outcome from the perspective of demuxing and remuxing EVO's to save disc space.

UPDATE 2:
On Vista with SP1 installed (no PowerDVD) I first encounter the above problems when changing from version 2.1.6.105 to 2.1.6.109.