Blu-Ray Support

[skourip]

Reading through a post requesting that slysoft should supprt Blu-Ray I wasnt very clear what the answer from the company was. The posts from the Moderator leed me to beleive that Bue-Ray is out of the picture for them for now at least. Does anyone know a definitive answer to this question? My opinion is that support for blu-ray should be a priority for slysoft. I own both however it seems from both retail as well as online sales that blu-ray is going to be the winner. Despite the fact that it is early, the product placement(of the players sampling about 30 stores in the northeast) at the big retail stores by itself already says a lot!! HD-DVD has been pushed aside by the big guys at least for now.

[tabacznik]

But the mastering quality in HD-DVD Discs is much better up to now, than in BluRay, and HD-DVD is much cheaper. So pray to God that BluRay doesn't win. Support HD-DVD!

[skourip]

Despite the fact that some of the initial blu-ray releases were indeed flawed that is not the case any more. I am not supporting any one of the two even though in the long run I do think that BR does have an edge. I do not agree with the Sony hating crowd because although I don’t love sony it does surprise me that nobody seems to mind that Microsoft´s support is one of the main reasons HD DVD has a fighting chance. Both companies have employed their share of questionable business tactics.

[Webslinger]

Reading through a post requesting that slysoft should supprt Blu-Ray I wasnt very clear what the answer from the company was. The posts from the Moderator leed me to beleive that Bue-Ray is out of the picture for them for now at least.

I hope you didn't get that impression from me. I believe the Slysoft devs will take a look at Blu-Ray, but nothing concrete is planned.

[Bathrone]

A tragic mistake indeed not to give BluRay the focus it deserves.

It is likely to be the winner in the format war, for good or bad. Sales are clearly ahead and the format is pushing how it has the majroity of content from the studios.

We need region free from bluray discs - there is far more demand for bluray than HD-DVD because of this as HD-DVD doesnt use region coding :agree:

Are the devs afraid of BD+ :D

[James]

A tragic mistake indeed not to give BluRay the focus it deserves.

It is likely to be the winner in the format war, for good or bad. Sales are clearly ahead and the format is pushing how it has the majroity of content from the studios.

With AnyDVD HD gaining popularity, this will change. :D

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=23568

[James]

We need region free from bluray discs - there is far more demand for bluray than HD-DVD because of this as HD-DVD doesnt use region coding :agree:

Then, why are you buying an even *more* restrictive format? Isn't HD DVD bad enough?

[nwasend]

Tom Xiang, Marketing Director: "When we considered Blu-Ray, our strategy
was simply to initially support HD-DVD and await further developments
in the marketplace. Already during the beta phase we got many
inquiries about Blu-Ray so we decided to go ahead and also provide
support for this as soon as possible. Blu-Ray employs the same
AACS process as HD-DVD. An implementation was really just a matter
of form. A beta version is planned for availability this quarter."

So to answer everyones question regarding blu-ray. Based on Tom's response, blu-ray will be supported further down the road.:clap: :agree: :bowdown:

[James]

So to answer everyones question regarding blu-ray. Based on Tom's response, blu-ray will be supported further down the road.
Peer will have to do this alone. I'll pass. :D

[Bathrone]

Then, why are you buying an even *more* restrictive format? Isn't HD DVD bad enough?

You assume James that it is a consumers market. It is not. Its about content and supply. Bluray has the major share of all the studios on their side.

It would be a regreatble business strategy to only support one of the two new formats, and especially the one which is not leading the sales. :(

Perhaps slysoft could consider just a simple region free bluray product, then tackle the harder BD+ down the road. There is major demand for region free bluray now. :bowdown:

Someone is going to start selling such a product inevitably and slysoft is uniqely positioned with brand identification and reputation to win the market quickly. That is, unless slysoft is getting kickbacks from bluray not to do so :policeman: :D

[James]

You assume James that it is a consumers market. It is not. Its about content and supply. Bluray has the major share of all the studios on their side.

Only as long as you are stupid enough to buy it. If Disney & Fox sit on piles of unsold Blu-ray discs and they have to watch how Warner, Paramount & Universal make a lot of money with their HD DVD sales... they will reconsider. They want to make money, too. Trust me, they will. :D


It would be a regreatble business strategy to only support one of the two new formats, and especially the one which is not leading the sales.

This can change rather quickly with the help of AnyDVD HD.:D

Perhaps slysoft could consider just a simple region free bluray product, then tackle the harder BD+ down the road. There is major demand for region free bluray now.

Decrypting AACS might be much easier than making it region free (AACS is basically the same on HD DVD and Blu-ray), especially as most Blu-ray drives are made by Matsushita/Panasonic.

Someone is going to start selling such a product inevitably and slysoft is uniqely positioned with brand identification and reputation to win the market quickly. That is, unless slysoft is getting kickbacks from bluray not to do so
Maybe it is just the other way round, and the HD DVD folks give us kickbacks *not* to support Blu-ray? ;)
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=23568

[Bathrone]

Thankyou for your thoughts James.

The notion that piracy will turn around the lack lustre HD-DVD sales is wishful thinking at best. According to which research group you listen too, you get a claimed 2 to 4 way lead over HD-DVD sales. With BRD having a 2 to 4 way lead over HD-DVD sales I dont see that turning around anytime soon.

And, BRD has region coding, the BDROM mark and BD+. So using the wishful logic that the weakest DRM / strongest pirate format will win clearly isnt reflected in what is happening with the marketplace.

With a 2 to four fold increase in sales over HD-DVD, it's hardly the case that BRD is sitting on shelves. Its actually HD-DVD that selling not so well.

One of the primary reasons for studios preferring BRD is it's seen as the stronger security platform. Again, its a suppliers market not a consumers market.

Im sure you and the other skilled staff at SlySoft can meet the challenge of region coding on BRD.

[James]

Thankyou for your thoughts James.

The notion that piracy will turn around the lack lustre HD-DVD sales is wishful thinking at best.
Not piracy. Fair use. Where do you want to back up a 30GB movie to anyway? You can store it on your terrabyte media server for easy access. Sweet!
Consumers (yes, it isn't a consumer market per your definition, but somebody must pay for the crap, right?) aren't stupid (you could argue that, of course).
They want to use HD content the way they did with DVDs. They don't want to buy HDMI/HDCP displays. They want to make a DVD copy for the car. Maybe even a file for their portable player. A copy for the childrens room. They will very soon realise that BR won't allow this, but HD DVD does.
And the sales aren't that lack lustre as you say. If you compare titles available in both formats, HD DVD is close to Blu-ray or is even in the lead ("The Departed" on Blu-ray has sales rank 154 on amazon.com at the moment of this writing, the HD DVD version 144, so it is selling slightly better). I can only imagine how the sales rank of "Casino Royale" would be on HD DVD. :D
I can't see Blu-ray outselling HD DVD 2-4 at all.
The time will come where Fox & Co. won't walk away from the money any longer. DVDs are cracked for years now. This hasn't stopped the industry to make billions with them.

[James]

But this is all hypothetical, if my boss tells me "Do Blu-ray, now!" I'll obey. Or take my overdue vacation. :D

[skourip]

Well then lets hope that your boss does tell you to do just that James!!! Were can I reach him! ha ha Its funny I don’t seem to get it I guess I am new to the forum. The moderator Webslinger is trying to be unbiased but James who is if I understand it correctly also a Slysoft employee is clearly favoring HD-DVD. This bias is alienating a lot of slysofts customers who refrain from even using this forum because the feel that they will not be heard. You are also keeping new customers away. It certainly isn’t the best business practice a company like slysoft should not be taking sides in a war that is much much bigger than itself but should rather try to take advantage of both formats in order to attract as many customers as possible. Which format is better and which company deserves to win or loose should be irrelevant. You have a customer base which before this split was valuable to you and now you obviously choose to either force one format on them or disregard their needs if they choose different!! In any case I am buying a mix of both formats and the idea of conversion from one to other seems like a good one. I do agree with James that Slysofts software is about fair use rather than piracy. I have copied over 100 DVD´s but have not kept a single copy. It was always on RW discs to be able to watch at my convenience.

[James]

Well then lets hope that your boss does tell you to do just that James!!! Were can I reach him! ha ha Its funny I don’t seem to get it I guess I am new to the forum. The moderator Webslinger is trying to be unbiased but James who is if I understand it correctly also a Slysoft employee is clearly favoring HD-DVD.
Yes, and I am also an individual and entitled to my own opinion.

[Webslinger]

The moderator Webslinger is trying to be unbiased but James who is if I understand it correctly also a Slysoft employee is clearly favoring HD-DVD.

I don't work for Slysoft actually (well, I help moderate, and I try to help people if I can), but I'm not a Slysoft employee. I was basing my opinion on
this:

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=1542

"Tom Xiang, Marketing Director: "When we considered Blu-Ray, our strategy
was simply to initially support HD-DVD and await further developments
in the marketplace. Already during the beta phase we got many
inquiries about Blu-Ray so we decided to go ahead and also provide
support for this as soon as possible. Blu-Ray employs the same
AACS process as HD-DVD. An implementation was really just a matter
of form. A beta version is planned for availability this quarter."


This bias is alienating a lot of slysofts customers who refrain from even using this forum because the feel that they will not be heard.

You're being heard. You don't need to worry about posting. James is just expressing his personal opinion. He is not trying to offend anyone.

[skourip]

Yes, and I am also an individual and entitled to my own opinion.

Well James yes you are an individual and you are most certainly entitled to your own opinion, however you are posting on your employers forum and your opinions carry the weight they do because on your username it states SlySoft Team Member. As such you should, in my humble opinion, first and foremost represent the company’s views and interests. You could very well have created another username where your affiliation is not indicated if you feel the urgent need to express your personal views especially if these views may hurt the company or upset users. In any case I agree with many of the points you make and my comments are not meant to insult you. Nor was I offended by your comments(as Webslinger may have thought) even though others may not be as forgiving especially when they are called stupid ¨Only as long as you are stupid enough to buy it¨!!
Webslinger thank you for your response lets see if BR support does actually materialize.

[DetroitBaseball]

Blu-Ray's region coding isn't as bad as DVD's.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Blu-ray_regions_with_key.png

[James]

Blu-Ray's region coding isn't as bad as DVD's.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Blu-ray_regions_with_key.png

Every region coding is bad. ;)

[DetroitBaseball]

Every region coding is bad. ;)
I agree, but atleast Blu-Ray cut it down to 3.

[guile]

Interesting thread and I can obviously see the need for a Blu Ray product. I have to agree with James on this one though. I think HD-DVD has a LOT more going for it. Does that assure it will win? No. In fact, it is usually the crappy product that would win in the end. I am not saying Blu Ray is crappy, I just think it is inferior. In the end, it's all about content. Hopefully, Universal will step up to the plate and deliver.

Don't count Microsoft out either. I do also have a PC Blu Ray drive and own some of the movies I want that aren't on HD-DVD. AVC is clearly better then Mpeg 2 no matter how you spin it.

g

[Bathrone]

Good discussion guys 8)

Im intending on getting a bluray burner and hd-dvd reader combo drive in one unit, like what LG are selling. Ideally I'd like to run one AnyDVD app that does DVD, HD-DVD and BluRay. :agree:

It is very unlikely the winner will be the format thats the most useable because the market is not driven by consumers wants about the formats useability - the studios supply it on their chosen format and do many things to make it hard for people to shift the content into different formats. This is why all of the proper research published so far I have seen has clearly shown BRD outselling HD-DVD by a factor of two to four. I am happy to consider any proper industry review showing different figures but I am honestly not aware of any such reviews. If the market was driven by who has the most user freindly platform HD-DVD would have already won the format war and would not now be significantly behind in sales next to Blu-Ray.

The reason for this in my view is that the studios see BRD as the more secure format that will better protect their content and their purse strings. Weve already seen one major studio do a major reshuffle of BRD releases this year for what in my opinion is to allow time for them to be mastered in BD+ now that AACS is defeated.

Its a suppliers market and the studios will continue to back what they perceive to be the most secure format.

Slysoft is uniquely positioned at this right time with the right set of capabilities to dominate the market for fair use enabling technologies with BRD. Otherwise by not doing your magic with BluRay your just going to loose sales to competitors.

[Slinger07]

Noticed at Best Buy today that they really advertise the "Blew Ray" :doh: stuff more then the HD DVD. They had 2 BR Players showing movies on 2 separate HDTV's and when I asked to see the HD DVD setup, I was told they did not have one.

I did manage to speak with a Geek Squad guy who told me that the porn industry has a big say-so in who wins this war and they are supporting HD DVD. When I asked him why Best Buy does not have a HD DVD display to show support for it, he said they should have one, but dont atm.

Just something I noticed today and figured I would pass along. Maybe more of us should start pushing the HD DVD stuff when we are at the stores?? :agree:

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

I did manage to speak with a Geek Squad guy who told me that the porn industry has a big say-so in who wins this war and they are supporting HD DVD.

From what I read some time ago the Blu-Ray camp never responded to the porn industry while the HD-DVD camp did. Hence the backing of HD-DVD by the porn industry at this point. And then later, I guess, the BR camp just said no XXX movies, period.

If the BR camp is anti-porn then, personally, I think they deserve to fail. Regardless of one's opinion on whether porn is good or not I do not like the industry deciding what I can and can not find. It's bad enough that they put so many restrictions and limitations on this but now they're going beyond being annoying. When did they become the moral police?

[DetroitBaseball]

From what I read some time ago the Blu-Ray camp never responded to the porn industry while the HD-DVD camp did. Hence the backing of HD-DVD by the porn industry at this point. And then later, I guess, the BR camp just said no XXX movies, period.

If the BR camp is anti-porn then, personally, I think they deserve to fail. Regardless of one's opinion on whether porn is good or not I do not like the industry deciding what I can and can not find. It's bad enough that they put so many restrictions and limitations on this but now they're going beyond being annoying. When did they become the moral police?
I share the same opinion as you.

[Androo79]

From what I read some time ago the Blu-Ray camp never responded to the porn industry while the HD-DVD camp did. Hence the backing of HD-DVD by the porn industry at this point. And then later, I guess, the BR camp just said no XXX movies, period.

If the BR camp is anti-porn then, personally, I think they deserve to fail. Regardless of one's opinion on whether porn is good or not I do not like the industry deciding what I can and can not find. It's bad enough that they put so many restrictions and limitations on this but now they're going beyond being annoying. When did they become the moral police?

Vivid has actually talked a BDR manufacturer into making their discs. They are going to be releasing Debbie Does Dallas (Two) on HD-DVD and BDR.

[skourip]

Vivid has actually talked a BDR manufacturer into making their discs. They are going to be releasing Debbie Does Dallas (Two) on HD-DVD and BDR.

Good find Androo79. Now I guess we can all rest assured that there will be porn on BR and get on to the main subject which is the need to support both formats! For a moment there I was certain that HD-DVD was the winner due to support from the porn industry!! Anyway as far as Slinger07´s comment regarding product placement as I mentioned before this is true for both Best Buy, Circuit City PC Richards and other major electronic chains in the Northeast. Unfortunately HD-DVD is starting to give me the feeling that DIVX gave me about a week after it was released by CC, a feeling that there is no way it would last long. I really hope I am wrong because if both formats are around users will only gain in terms of both software as well as hardware pricing not to mention product quality.

[Webslinger]

For a moment there I was certain that HD-DVD was the winner due to support from the porn industry!!

Not that I care that much, but there's porn on Blu-Ray in Japan already. I think what format is being supported by porn might be a little more regional in nature . . .

[skourip]

Not that I care that much, but there's porn on Blu-Ray in Japan already. I think what format is being supported by porn might be a little more regional in nature . . .

Webslinger I was just kidding. I seriously doubt this ¨issue¨ will have any effect on how these formats fare.

[Webslinger]

Webslinger I was just kidding. I seriously doubt this ¨issue¨ will have any effect on how these formats fare.

/shrug

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,125618-page,1/article.html

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

Webslinger I was just kidding. I seriously doubt this ¨issue¨ will have any effect on how these formats fare.

Well, I do think the success of the format has a huge role in support being added to AnyDVD HD. You may disagree but I hardly think I pulled the thread off-topic. It does appear as Webslinger and Androo79 have written that that Blu-Ray has relaxed their stance.

As for your doubt that this will have any impact you may or may not be correct. One of the reasons VHS won over Betamax was porn. Now this doesn't necessarily mean porn will decide which format wins but it still might have an impact. It's said that VHS beat Betamax because VHS was more open and Betamax was Sony's little pet that they had control of. Well, their initial reaction to porn on Blu-Ray was a bad move on their part. If you want your format to be embraced by as many people as possible then you don't restrict a large source of media releases from using said format!

Anyway, my point in even bringing this up was that if Blu-Ray is very very stupid and doesn't think about the big picture they will ruin themselves. And, why spend the time on finding a way to get around the protections if it's a lame duck to begin with. Of course, it appears from press releases that they are planning on working on it.

Feel free to completely disregard my statements.

[Charlie]

/shrug

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,125618-page,1/article.html

However this can stand true, but this article is almost a year old and may not be the deciding factor, but then again it just may.

Since this article was posted I want you to know that there is allot of HD-DVD's with porn on it due to the fact Soy said no to them earlier. So porn is on both formats if there are dvd's (bluray) from the porn industry.

[Webslinger]

It does appear as Webslinger and Androo79 have written that that Blu-Ray has relaxed their stance.


I am going to type something that James would probably want to shoot me for typing: I don't care who wins--as long as someone wins soon(ish). This format war isn't helping me at all. /hides

That said, (and I do keep up on industry news and analysis), things don't look very good right now for HD-DVD. If HD-DVD wins that would make James' job a little easier, I think, so maybe I'll lean a little towards hoping HD-DVD wins (but I'm not going to cry at night if Blu-Ray wins either).

[Webslinger]

However this can stand true, but this article is almost a year old and may not be the deciding factor, but then again it just may.

I have no idea. People argue strongly on both sides. I'm not sure I care much either, which is why I typed "/shrug".

Since this article was posted I want you to know that there is allot of HD-DVD's with porn on it due to the fact Soy said no to them earlier. So porn is on both formats if there are dvd's (bluray) from the porn industry.

Yep, there will likely be more porn on HD-DVD in North America. But Japan could be another story. It's full of PS3s there.

[Charlie]

I have no idea. People argue strongly on both sides. I'm not sure I care much either, which is why I typed "/shrug".



Yep, there will likely be more porn on HD-DVD in North America. But Japan could be another story.

Sorry web wasn't trying to make a mockery out of you. Just my 2¢. :D

I tend to stay away from these threads as there is too much fanboys and bashing.

[Webslinger]

Sorry web wasn't trying to make a mockery out of you.

That's ok, my girlfriend does a good job of it. You might as well make fun of me too. :D

[Charlie]

That's ok, my girlfriend does a good job of it. You might as well make fun of me too. :D



http://webpages.charter.net/kylegdb/smilies/38.gifhttp://ganjataz.com/01smileys/images/smileys/Mad%20Jester.gif

Is that better then? :D

[Webslinger]

Is that better then? :D


It's a start. :clap: :D

[3r1c]

The point is this.

Blu-ray burners are available.
And it is possible to rip/burn a bluray movie onto a single layer BD-R.

There are no HD-DVD burners.
When they do come out, you will need DOUBLE layer discs to burn movies.

Whatever way you put it. Blu-ray's 50GB beats HD-DVD's 30GB.

Some of the movies already take 27GB on hddvd.
Now what is going to happen when a very long movie (eg. lord of the rings) is put on a HD-DVD. They are going to lower the bitrate to make it fit in 30GB.


HD-DVD has some good advantages which i like.
Can burn HVDVD_TS folders onto standard dvd disc and play in hd.
Can burn VIDEO_TS folders onto hddvd disc for more storage of SD video.
No bullsh*t with blu-rays BDMV BDAV folders and not playing home burned media.

[Webslinger]

Blu-ray burners are available.
And it is possible to rip/burn a bluray movie onto a single layer BD-R.


We haven't seen BD+ yet. One point to consider is how much protection are we, as consumers, going to be dealing with if we want to exercise our fair rights.

Size doesn't always matter; it's the quality that matters, right? (since we've been talking about porn, recently :D )

Err, I mean codecs matter.

Blu-ray does have a size advantage. Still, some of the earlier releases did not impress.

[SlyFox 1]

I don't think Sony has ever won even one of these format wars. They should quit while they are ahead, they make a good TV. Its just a matter of time before HD RW Drives are available. :agree:

[skourip]

Well, I do think the success of the format has a huge role in support being added to AnyDVD HD. You may disagree but I hardly think I pulled the thread off-topic. It does appear as Webslinger and Androo79 have written that that Blu-Ray has relaxed their stance.

As for your doubt that this will have any impact you may or may not be correct. One of the reasons VHS won over Betamax was porn. Now this doesn't necessarily mean porn will decide which format wins but it still might have an impact. It's said that VHS beat Betamax because VHS was more open and Betamax was Sony's little pet that they had control of. Well, their initial reaction to porn on Blu-Ray was a bad move on their part. If you want your format to be embraced by as many people as possible then you don't restrict a large source of media releases from using said format!

Anyway, my point in even bringing this up was that if Blu-Ray is very very stupid and doesn't think about the big picture they will ruin themselves. And, why spend the time on finding a way to get around the protections if it's a lame duck to begin with. Of course, it appears from press releases that they are planning on working on it.

Feel free to completely disregard my statements.
Well DrinkLyeAndDie why would I disregard your statements? I never argued that BR have made the best decisions regarding their format. I do agree that in general restricting the content is unacceptable and will hurt the format. It is also true that support of the format from slysoft could have a positive effect for BR, as a matter of fact I feel that it will be a much bigger factor than porn releases. The VHS VS bettamax story took place during vastly different times. The internet wasn’t the primary source for porn back then. One of the reasons its so big now is the internet and the ease with which people can access it with the primary weight being on volume rather than quality(http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/internet/12/10/porn.business/). I seriously doubt there will be a lot of people who would like to have their porn collection on BR or HD-DVD. I tend to agree with Steve Duplessie that porn will not drive the format. Now on to the region encoding I also agree that its a bad idea. However it was there with DVD and it did not hurt the format at all. Companies like slysoft made sure we could get around it. Hopefully they will again!! Now as to the winner of the war I have already made my prediction. Despite all the talk there are more important factors which will decide the success or failure of the two formats. One simple example is product placement which I mentioned before and is vastly more important than either porn or slysofts support. Also when one looks at the comparison of the two formats its pretty clear :
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6463_7-6462511-2.html?tag=nav
As I said lets hope that HD-DVD lasts long enough to keep up the pressure for both pricing and quality. Latest sales data look pretty bad for HD-DVD(35% HD-DVD, 65 blu ray).

[Wizatron]

The point is this.

Blu-ray burners are available.
And it is possible to rip/burn a bluray movie onto a single layer BD-R.



Although many will hate this, I have already purchased a BluRay burner for my PC and so far have been very happy with it. From a PC perspective, it is better from a data storage capacity of 50GB rather than 30GB. Also, I have tons of PS2 games, so going to the PS3 was a no brainer. I now have a BluRay player for half the cost and still can play may PS2/PS3 games. For me, this was a win - win situation. Please do not take this as, I am a Sony lover, I am not. But, I also have to say that I am not a big Microsoft lover either. Either way, the two formats are out there and we are in the middle. Since both Sony and Microsoft will not abandon their formats (or at least no time soon), it is going to be those who support both formats that will win. There is a great amount of $$$ to be made this way.

[thevoiceover]

so going to the PS3 was a no brainer.


I also have both formats and for the titles that are released on both platforms, I prefer the HD-DVD format. My TV is 1080p and both the players I have are playing at 1080p - this means I can pretty much judge the formats with a "unbiased" opinion. I just think the detail is better on HD-DVD over the Bluray, then again - they both are way better than standard DVD's..

Are you running Linux on your PS3? This to me is a must and being you can compile the Kernel with NTFS support, it is pretty easy to backup Bluray to your external drives.. I also have a UDF filesystem added to my kernel, this means HD-DVD USB drive support!! Pretty cool that a machine like this can do it all! I can also say I don't consider myself a Sony fan either, but I have a few of there TV's, PS2, PS3, PSP and a couple of there monitors - what does this make me? I guess I do support them.. Well either way none of there formats seem to survive the wars (even though I thought betamax was a great format) they made me pretty angry with not supporting the MD format well and then UMD movies have gone really nowhere. What does this mean for Bluray? I have not a clue, I do see the amount of movies released though on Bluray (not stating quality) and the numbers alone seem to be favoring Sony.

[TM2-Megatron]

I am not saying Blu Ray is crappy, I just think it is inferior. In the end, it's all about content.

It's only inferior in terms of usability, though, and that could change if the group behind it decided to implement less restrictive standards; a move like that would pretty much bury HD-DVD in a matter of weeks. In pretty much every techical way Blu-Ray outstrips HD-DVD considerably; and it's definately the ideal format for computer use (even ignoring the fact there don't seem to be any HD-DVD burners or media available, anyway).

[guile]

It's only inferior in terms of usability, though, and that could change if the group behind it decided to implement less restrictive standards; a move like that would pretty much bury HD-DVD in a matter of weeks. In pretty much every techical way Blu-Ray outstrips HD-DVD considerably; and it's definately the ideal format for computer use (even ignoring the fact there don't seem to be any HD-DVD burners or media available, anyway).

Usability?? C'mon now. Is that the ONLY way it is inferior to HD-DVD? I don't think so. There are positives and negatives on BOTH sides but HD-DVD is just better imo. Does that mean I wouldn't support Blu Ray? No. I have a BD drive and like some of the stuff I have for it. This whole thing about "Space" being the advantage is a bunch of bs. If they chose to use a more efficient codec (ie, avc), they wouldn't need 40+ gig files for movies like Click and Black Hawk Down.

So tell me exactly how Blu-Ray outstrips HD-DVD in pretty much every technical way again? Oh, let's see, it's about PC users. First off, I don't think ANY optical disc is a viable storage solution, period! Yes, Blu Ray has the drives out (and well ahead of HD-DVD with their measly 1x that hasn't even showed up yet), but for now, this is cutting edge stuff that most people don't even know exists. That will be for the forseeable future imo.

By the time either format starts penetrating mass market, 2 tb hard drives will be affordable and the norm. I wouldn't trust a 10 gig disc to hold my data let alone a 30 (or worse, 50) gig disc. Btw, I hate Blu Ray so much that I am counting the minutes for an anydvd-hd update that supports it:)

g

[Charlie]

There don't seem to be any HD-DVD burners or media available, anyway).

Yes there is

Usability?? C'mon now. Is that the ONLY way it is inferior to HD-DVD? I don't think so. There are positives and negatives on BOTH sides but HD-DVD is just better imo. Does that mean I wouldn't support Blu Ray? No. I have a BD drive and like some of the stuff I have for it. This whole thing about "Space" being the advantage is a bunch of bs. If they chose to use a more efficient codec (ie, avc), they wouldn't need 40+ gig files for movies like Click and Black Hawk Down.

So tell me exactly how Blu-Ray outstrips HD-DVD in pretty much every technical way again? Oh, let's see, it's about PC users. First off, I don't think ANY optical disc is a viable storage solution, period! Yes, Blu Ray has the drives out (and well ahead of HD-DVD with their measly 1x that hasn't even showed up yet), but for now, this is cutting edge stuff that most people don't even know exists. That will be for the forseeable future imo.

By the time either format starts penetrating mass market, 2 tb hard drives will be affordable and the norm. I wouldn't trust a 10 gig disc to hold my data let alone a 30 (or worse, 50) gig disc. Btw, I hate Blu Ray so much that I am counting the minutes for an anydvd-hd update that supports it:)

g

Well put on that, I just don't understand the rush to decrypt it? There really isn't a need just yet well I think.

Don't get me wrong yes it is better picture quality but you can't go by hardware and media for saying this one is better than the other. Just my honest opinion and thoughts.

[James]

Usability?? C'mon now. Is that the ONLY way it is inferior to HD-DVD? I don't think so. There are positives and negatives on BOTH sides but HD-DVD is just better imo. Does that mean I wouldn't support Blu Ray? No. I have a BD drive and like some of the stuff I have for it. This whole thing about "Space" being the advantage is a bunch of bs. If they chose to use a more efficient codec (ie, avc), they wouldn't need 40+ gig files for movies like Click and Black Hawk Down.

Not to mention that they "forgot" to make lossless audio codecs mandatory, so they waste gigabytes with multichannel pcm sound. :doh:
Or they "forgot" to make a secondary video decoder mandatory, so they waste half of the disc with a "video commentary" version. :doh:
They didn't make advanced menus mandatory, so we don't have cool xml scripting and nice menus like HD DVD has.
I cannot comment on the physical format (reliability?) and use for data storage, but the Blu-ray "Video" format sucks.

[TM2-Megatron]

This whole thing about "Space" being the advantage is a bunch of bs. If they chose to use a more efficient codec (ie, avc), they wouldn't need 40+ gig files for movies like Click and Black Hawk Down.

Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray standards include all the same codecs... yeah, it was probably a mistake for those putting out Blu-Ray movies to use MPEG-2 instead of AVC or VC-1, but as I understand it the newer Blu-Ray releases are starting to use these codecs.

I wasn't really referring to mere storage capacity when I said Blu-Ray was superior (though it does obviously have more, which is a benefit in the computer area). I'm no engineer, so I can't get into great specifics without basically repeating the reports I've read elsewhere, but from everything I have read about both formats, Blu-Ray is certainly the superior format from a pure technical standpoint putting aside all the video standards, region coding and other garbage that's included in the equation for films on Blu-Ray. I won't argue that, counting all those things, it is a better option to have films on HD-DVD (unless the Blu-Ray group decides to change those standards, etc. appropriately), and to leave Blu-Ray for computer use.

It technology is more innovative, it's more scratch resistant... etc. One of the reasons HD-DVD has that slight cost advantage is that it's so heavily based on conventional DVDs... too heavily based on them, IMO. I'd rather a completely new format that a modest upgrade and repackaged version of an old one.

First off, I don't think ANY optical disc is a viable storage solution, period!

No, I wouldn't trust most optical discs for long-term backups, but that doesn't invalidate the medium entirely. What I do backup to optical disc (usually DVD-RAM), I also keep on my external WD MyBook Pro 500GB (though this is getting full, so I'm considering getting a second one with a TB capacity). It's still nice having the discs around when I'm in a hurry... they're also more portable than the external drive. And quite frankly, I haven't lost data off a disc yet, so I'm not overly suspicious of them.

Yes, Blu Ray has the drives out (and well ahead of HD-DVD with their measly 1x that hasn't even showed up yet), but for now, this is cutting edge stuff that most people don't even know exists. That will be for the forseeable future imo.

I wouldn't say that'll be a very long forseeable future. Even now, you can buy a Blu-Ray burner for hundreds less than a standalone television player. And if CD and DVD were any indications, these drives will come down in price awfully quickly.

By the time either format starts penetrating mass market, 2 tb hard drives will be affordable and the norm. I wouldn't trust a 10 gig disc to hold my data let alone a 30 (or worse, 50) gig disc. Btw, I hate Blu Ray so much that I am counting the minutes for an anydvd-hd update that supports it:)

I wouldn't say 2TBs will be the norm that soon. Average users still aren't generally capable of filling up even 500GB.

For better or for worse, at the moment Blu-Ray looks to be quite ahead in terms of movie sales, and it's certainly way ahead in computers. I won't really care one way or the other which one wins, but I really don't see HD-DVD as being better than Blu-Ray in any other way than user friendliness.

[Charlie]

Well it's been a while on the debate of which format so here is some google news on the battle of the hi-def players just released about 4 hours ago.



AMERICA'S porn kings may decide who wins the biggest format stoush as the battle for the next-generation to replace DVDs heats up.

And this is the biggest battle since the Betamax VCR took on its rival VHS in the 1980s.

In January, anyone looking for a winner of the war between the two next-generation discs designed to replace DVD would have picked Blu-ray over the opposing HD-DVD format by a country mile.

The bet looked well-placed: the first two Blu-ray players, Samsung's BD-P1000 and Panasonic's BD10, along with a handful of GB BD movies, were in Australian stores in December.

HD-DVD movies were scarce and a player nowhere in sight.

Software support for Blu-ray is hefty. Every big Hollywood studio except Universal backs Blu-ray, and only a handful of labels are opting to press movies in both formats.

Blu-ray can also count on the hardware support of the world's highest-profile consumer electronics companies including Sony, Panasonic, Apple Computers, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Dell, LG and Hitachi.

The HD-DVD camp includes Toshiba, Microsoft, GE, Kenwood, Canon, Onkyo, Teac, NEC and Mitsubishi.

But the clincher for Blu-ray is Sony's Blu-ray-equipped PS3.

The high-resolution gaming console is due out on March 23 and will be snapped up.

No wonder that last month it looked like a 3-0 to Blu-ray.

But just when it looked like being all over for HD-DVD two things happened.

Both prove why a month is a long time in the ever-shifting and often murky politics of consumer electronics.

The arrival of the HD-E1 -- Toshiba's first HD-DVD player -- in Australia -- in the middle of last month was the first.

The second occurred a week earlier at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, an event at which the adult industry holds a concurrent exhibition.

The whisper coming from LA got louder as the show went on.

Word was the $72 billion-a-year worldwide porn industry would use HD-DVD to maintain its 10 per cent share of an annual market of standard DVDs worth an estimated $30.3 billion.

The official reason was HD-DVD's lower cost of production.

Unofficially, it is Sony's longstanding and praiseworthy policy of disallowing its media to handle pornography.

The upshot is a Lazarus-like revival of HD-DVD.

But the smart money is still on Blu-ray. The format has the software and hardware firepower to see off HD-DVD, notwithstanding the latter's support from the adult industry.

In the long run, HD-DVD will survive only if the opposing camps agree to build dual-format machines.

It's a rerun of the recordable-DVD debacle all over again, when opposing groups publicly refused to build dual-format recorders.

The confused public bought neither.

In the end everyone caved in and nearly all DVD recorders read the -R and +R recorder formats.

Until the format issue is resolved, Toshiba is pressing on with HD-DVD and has finally released its first Australian high-definition player, the $1099 HD-E1.

The HD-E1 was meant to arrive before December, but after a frustrating number of false starts Australia's first HD-DVD player has finally arrived.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21289074-11869,00.html