Feature request. Frequency change 24hz on blu-ray detection:

[wilsonj]

I know there is an option to change frequencies for NTSC and PAL, but is there any chance of adding the option to change on Blu-ray and HD detectio also??

I can only get smooth playback of blu-ray at 24hz, but that messes with DVD playback, so I change to 50hz for that. And visa versa.

I would really love to see this feature added. It seems like it wouldn't be too hard, as the option seems to be half way there now...

Anyone else interested in this feature?

Regards
Jamie

[wilsonj]

ok so I just found this

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=15860&highlight=24hz+change

If I put 24hz for non video disc, eg anything but DVD the pc changes to 24hz. DVDs change to 50/60hz. Now everything is smooth.

Yipppeee!

Thanks slysoft.

[James]

I can only get smooth playback of blu-ray at 24hz, but that messes with DVD playback, so I change to 50hz for that. And visa versa.

You watch PAL DVDs with 50Hz and enjoy Mikey Mouse voices?

Tsk, tsk... ;)

[Tox]

@wilsonj You should use 72Hz.

@james I don't get it :disagree:

[James]

@james I don't get it :disagree:

Trust your ears:
http://www.schmidt-web.info/malte/english.html

If you don't hear the difference, or if you don't care.... use 50Hz. ;)

IMHO the only way to play PAL DVDs (which are mastered from 24p sources, which is almost everything) is with 24/48/72 fps. AFAIK ReClock is the only way to do this. No, the "Tru PAL" setting of WinDVD doesn't work.

[James]

@wilsonj You should use 72Hz.

Not, if the display supports standard HDTV timings, e.g. 1080p24
HDMI audio won't work with non standard timings like 1080p72, and you might even face HDMI bandwidth problems.

[James]

But this is all off topic... :o

[3r1c]

Yeah all blu-ray players and HDTV sets are required to accept 24fps by standard.
Yet movie studios still speedup and release 25fps pal shit in europe.
Thats why i order all my blu-ray from the USA.

At least in DVDs you get the benefit of the extra resolution (576p PAL vs 480p NTSC) but with hd there is no benefit, just the downside of speeded up audio.

[James]

Yeah all blu-ray players and HDTV sets are required to accept 24fps by standard.
Yet movie studios still speedup and release 25fps pal shit in europe.

No, on HD DVD / Blu-ray they don't


Thats why i order all my blu-ray from the USA.

There are many reasons to order Blu-ray discs in the US (release date, price), but PAL speedup isn't one of them.


At least in DVDs you get the benefit of the extra resolution (576p PAL vs 480p NTSC) but with hd there is no benefit, just the downside of speeded up audio.

There is no PAL speedup on BD. There is PAL speedup on two European HD DVD discs due to an authoring error (Basic Instinct, Total Recall).

[James]

Yeah all blu-ray players and HDTV sets are required to accept 24fps by standard.
Yet movie studios still speedup and release 25fps pal shit in europe.

Curious, do you know of one BD title which is suffering from PAL speedup? I don't know any title, they are all running with 23.976 or 24 FPS.

[DigiMagic]

Yet movie studios still speedup and release 25fps pal shit in europe.
Thats why i order all my blu-ray from the USA.


Does this apply to movies filmed/recorded in Europe too? Like Phantom of the opera or Der Untergang?

[James]

Does this apply to movies filmed/recorded in Europe too? Like Phantom of the opera or Der Untergang?
As I said, it doesn't apply to *any* movies. This information is plain wrong.

EDIT:
For HD discs. PAL DVDs have PAL speedup for European movies, too.

[SuperGoof]

... they are all running with 23.976 or 24 FPS.

BTW, what are advantages and disadvantages of one over the other?
As I understand, 24 fps is the actual frame rate of virtually all movies, while 23.976 fps is "NTSC adjusted" frame rate, which makes it possible to fit movie into standard 59.97Hz NTSC signal.
Also, approximately what is the ratio of BDs released with 24 fps to those with 23.976 fps?

[fleika]

in germany there are at least 3 bd with 50 hz and 1080i picture
(nur über ihre leiche/over my dead body,john carpenters vampires and
copland)so they should have the speedup.

[James]

BTW, what are advantages and disadvantages of one over the other?
As I understand, 24 fps is the actual frame rate of virtually all movies, while 23.976 fps is "NTSC adjusted" frame rate, which makes it possible to fit movie into standard 59.97Hz NTSC signal.

I don't know the definite answer. Maybe 1080i60 is 59.97Hz in real life, so playback on 1080i is easier. Or maybe to use the same transfer (downscaled) for NTSC SD DVDs.

Also, approximately what is the ratio of BDs released with 24 fps to those with 23.976 fps?
I have seen very few 24fps BD discs. Can't remember which.
Most are 23.976. Maybe because of the reason above, or because HD DVD didn't support 24fps, only 23.976 and the studios used the same transfer (at least Warner, Paramount and now Universal).
Not as bad as the "PAL speedup", as this "NTSC speeddown" is less than 1% (I cannot hear it).

[James]

in germany there are at least 3 bd with 50 hz and 1080i picture
(nur über ihre leiche/over my dead body,john carpenters vampires and
copland)so they should have the speedup.

This is sad. But these movies aren't available in the US (or any other country?) in any HD format. All movies released in Europe from major studios are mastered correctly with 23.976 fps or 24fps. And who is "Galileo Medien AG"? Maybe they want to make a quick buck and sell a HD PAL master on BD... From what I've heard, "Copland" seems to be an upscaled PAL DVD... :mad:

[James]

Trust your ears:
http://www.schmidt-web.info/malte/english.html

If you don't hear the difference, or if you don't care.... use 50Hz. ;)

IMHO the only way to play PAL DVDs (which are mastered from 24p sources, which is almost everything) is with 24/48/72 fps. AFAIK ReClock is the only way to do this. No, the "Tru PAL" setting of WinDVD doesn't work.
To drift even further off topic:

There are people, who call themselves "home theater buffs" and show off with their expensive amps and THX-Ultra certified speakers and high-end DVD players, but fail to recognize that >90% of all PAL DVDs not only run 4% too fast (this is almost 5 minutes on a 2 hour movie!) but have the pitch 4% wrong.

These people are not worthy of their expensive equipment, they should donate it to me. :D
But they can keep the expensive DVD player, I'll use a HTPC with XP and ReClock. ;)

[SuperGoof]

... >90% of all PAL DVDs not only run 4% too fast (this is almost 5 minutes on a 2 hour movie!) but have the pitch 4% wrong.
...
I'll use a HTPC with XP and ReClock. ;)

Apparently Sony TVs with "24p True Cinema" can also do the trick. Or can they?

This is the text for the tooltip for "24p True Cinema" keyword from sony.co.uk site:

24p True Cinema
This mode allows films to be watched as intended by the director for the big screen, at 24 frames per second. Until now, movies watched at home play back 'faster' than they do in the cinema. When a film is shown on TV or sold on DVD it has to be adjusted to be compatible with the PAL format. The difference is that films are shot at a rate of 24 frames per second, whereas standard TV uses 25 frames per second.

But I wonder how they do that. Apparently they should be using quite large buffer (as you said, the difference is 5 minutes for 2 hour movie, so this should be kept somewhere). And if they also convert 23.976p/29.97i to 24p, they also need a buffer, and also they have to delay playback a little bit.

[wilsonj]

Wow, what a response. Pity it went a little off topic. But while we are....

My projector doesn't seem to like 72hz, and at the other frequencies I get jerky playback. So for now this is the best solution. I'd rather have smooth pans and 4% faster audio anyday.

I will look into reclock though. But does it play nice with vista?

[James]

Wow, what a response. Pity it went a little off topic. But while we are....

My projector doesn't seem to like 72hz, and at the other frequencies I get jerky playback. So for now this is the best solution. I'd rather have smooth pans and 4% faster audio anyday.

The goal is to have smooth pans without 4% faster audio. ;)


I will look into reclock though. But does it play nice with vista?
No, unfortunately not.

[wilsonj]

Bummer about reclock. For now I will have to live with Mickey Mouse!!

[3r1c]

Well actually I dont have any PAL blu-ray.
I always order from USA and get them even when they are still in the theater here.
I heard they were speedup, i guess I was wrong.
HDTV programming (sky hd) is definately speedup though :(

What is the difference between 24fps and 23.97?
If the movie in the theater is 24fps, then do they slow down the audio for 23.97?
or is 24 not actually exists and is just short for 23.97

[SuperGoof]

Apparently Sony TVs with "24p True Cinema" can also do the trick. Or can they?


On a second thought, they probably don't and can't restore the original 24p from incoming PAL signal, and Sony references PAL DVDs just to illustrate that 24p was not possible at all until recently. You still need 24p (or 23.976p) source (such as BD) for "24p True Cinema" to work... They probably don't even display 23.976p as 24p and use "24p" as a common term for both.

So my previous post is a sheer stupidity... :bang:

[fleika]

This is sad. But these movies aren't available in the US (or any other country?) in any HD format. All movies released in Europe from major studios are mastered correctly with 23.976 fps or 24fps. And who is "Galileo Medien AG"? Maybe they want to make a quick buck and sell a HD PAL master on BD... From what I've heard, "Copland" seems to be an upscaled PAL DVD... :mad:

you are 100% right.the quality of vampires and copland blu ray is very
low.vampires has a picture quality below the us the superbit dvd(and is very heavy cut too).
reviews(in german)can be found on www .blurayreviews.ch.
i just tried to answer the question if there are blu rays not 24p with speedup .
mfg
fleika

[ilovehd]

Hello slysoft users & programmers,
A couple of questions about this feature if I may.

1) Is it possible to use the resolution switching feature for rips?
2) If not can this be requested?
3) Just out of curiosity how does it know how to switch refresh rates? Does it read the refresh rate when the movie starts playing or does it distinguish between pal/ntsc/non video?

[Jong]

Well actually I dont have any PAL blu-ray.
I always order from USA and get them even when they are still in the theater here.
I heard they were speedup, i guess I was wrong.
HDTV programming (sky hd) is definately speedup though :(

What is the difference between 24fps and 23.97?
If the movie in the theater is 24fps, then do they slow down the audio for 23.97?
or is 24 not actually exists and is just short for 23.97Movies play in the cinema @24fps exactly. In fact they are double-shuttered to conceal the slow frame rate, so similar to 48Hz at home.

Blu-ray and NTSC DVD movies play @23.976fps to make the telecine to NTSC 60Hz (which is actually 59.94Hz) easier. But since this is only a .1% slowdown it is generally regarded as benign and unnoticeable. However, "24p" for digital media almost always actually means 23.976fps and not 24fps and this leads to considerable confusion!

[James]

Movies play in the cinema @24fps exactly.
Unless the projectionist wants to get home 5 minutes early and plays it at 25fps. ;)


In fact they are double-shuttered to conceal the slow frame rate, so similar to 48Hz at home.

I have seen triple-shuttered cinema projectors, causing a 72Hz refresh rate, resulting in a "more flicker free" picture.
Unfortunately this is used rarely, as this technique reduces the light output.

[ashlar]

I will look into reclock though. But does it play nice with vista?It could in the future, if and when SlySoft shares with us their plans on that code's development (they acquired it several months ago). :D

[James]

I will look into reclock though. But does it play nice with vista?

It does now:

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=19931