DVDReClock [Archive] - SlySoft Forum

Charlie

7th March 2007, 17:05

Actually I’m puzzled. Do I need ReClock? :confused:

Obviously, living in a PAL–corner of the world. I have tried to look up information on ReCLock’s forums. If I understand this correctly – ReClock resynchronizes the audio-part with the video stream when watching PAL-encoded movies, Right?
Well I have watched several DVD’s both on a computer and streamed to a TV-set. I fail to notice any discrepancy, audio or visuals.
Obviously I lack the necessary hardware – eyes and ears! :eek:

Conclusion: No this software is not for me.
:)

I too only thought this effected the PAL region but James pointed out that it isn't just PAL. That's why I thought this thread deserved to be looked at and see the responses as allot of users were not happy about the reclock not in Vista and in the powerdvd ultra as well so in hope this would spark up a poll so to speak and let the slysoft team see if there would be a demand to put together such a project.

Peer

7th March 2007, 18:18

Actually I’m puzzled. Do I need ReClock?

Obviously, living in a PAL–corner of the world. I have tried to look up information on ReCLock’s forums. If I understand this correctly – ReClock resynchronizes the audio-part with the video stream when watching PAL-encoded movies, Right?
Well I have watched several DVD’s both on a computer and streamed to a TV-set. I fail to notice any discrepancy, audio or visuals.
Obviously I lack the necessary hardware – eyes and ears!

Conclusion: No this software is not for me.

Well, James explained that to me a while ago (ok, actually he explained it to me several times by now :)), and he'd be better in explaining this, but I'll give it a try (after all, I'm more the crypto-guy, and James is the video genius).
It's a bit of a mind-twister...

There is no re-synchronizing being done - the audio and video already has to be synchronized.
What it actually does, is speed up or slow down the whole thing a bit, to better match the refresh-rate of the display.
If you're watching a movie, that comes with a certain framerate and your monitor does not refresh at exactly that rate (or a multiple of that), some frames will show up for a less longer time, than others.
For example, when viewing a stream with 25 fps and your monitor refreshes at 60Hz, most frames will be on the screen for 2 refresh-periods, but quite a few will be on for 3.
And this results in moving sequences looking a little "skippy".

The same happens with a movie with 29.97 fps on a 60HZ-Monitor, just with a different rate (should skip apx. every 8 seconds, if I did that calculating right?).

So ReClock will - in the latter case - speed up the movie just a bit to 30fps (unnoticably). And with PAL you might better readjust the monitor frequency to 50Hz and ReClock will "lock on" the video to that rate.

I hope, I got that right, James don't yell at me.:rolleyes:

Well, I guess, the problem with ReClock is rather, that most people think that they don't need it, while they actually do? It would require some hardcore marketing, to get that to the people... :D

James

7th March 2007, 18:29

I too only thought this effected the PAL region but James pointed out that it isn't just PAL. That's why I thought this thread deserved to be looked at and see the responses as allot of users were not happy about the reclock not in Vista and in the powerdvd ultra as well so in hope this would spark up a poll so to speak and let the slysoft team see if there would be a demand to put together such a project.
To make it perfectly clear: There never will be enough demand to justify commecial development of a "reclock" type product, unless we charge $500 per copy.
If I would rewrite reclock, I would radically change the concept - instead of replacing the direct sound renderer, I would try to create a virtual soundcard instead. More compatible with both applications & OS, and it could include an AC3 codec for "reclocked" SPDIF output as well.
Reclock is not a "main stream" product, it is a very specialized tool which is loved by the "Home Theatre / Projection / High End" crowd, in spite of its many problems.
I personally would love to work on reclock in my spare time and I asked the author of ReClock if he is willing to release the source code, but I never got a response. The mail address in the documentation bounced, so I don't really know if he ever received my mail.
I personally love reclock and I don't want to live without it anymore. But starting from scratch is too much work for me.
As the development of reclock seems to have come to an end, I beg the author of reclock to release the sources. :bowdown:

James

7th March 2007, 18:37

Well, James explained that to me a while ago (ok, actually he explained it to me several times by now :)), and he'd be better in explaining this, but I'll give it a try (after all, I'm more the crypto-guy, and James is the video genius).
It's a bit of a mind-twister...

There is no re-synchronizing being done - the audio and video already has to be synchronized.
What it actually does, is speed up or slow down the whole thing a bit, to better match the refresh-rate of the display.
If you're watching a movie, that comes with a certain framerate and your monitor does not refresh at exactly that rate (or a multiple of that), some frames will show up for a less longer time, than others.
For example, when viewing a stream with 25 fps and your monitor refreshes at 60Hz, most frames will be on the screen for 2 refresh-periods, but quite a few will be on for 3.
And this results in moving sequences looking a little "skippy".

The same happens with a movie with 29.97 fps on a 60HZ-Monitor, just with a different rate (should skip apx. every 8 seconds, if I did that calculating right?).

So ReClock will - in the latter case - speed up the movie just a bit to 30fps (unnoticably). And with PAL you might better readjust the monitor frequency to 50Hz and ReClock will "lock on" the video to that rate.

I hope, I got that right, James don't yell at me.:rolleyes:

Well, I guess, the problem with ReClock is rather, that most people think that they don't need it, while they actually do? It would require some hardcore marketing, to get that to the people... :D
You explained it very well. I can add the practical uses:
1.) Judder free display of NTSC-DVDs/HD-DVD/Blu-ray Video material. (As everybody in NTSC countries is used to the 3:2 pulldown judder you see with *every* movie on TV, you probably won't notice it... I do. It sucks.)
2.) PAL Speedup reverse. PAL DVDs run 4% too fast. Yes, they do. Really. Want to listen to an example? Here it is:
http://www.schmidt-web.info/malte/english.html

khlb

7th March 2007, 21:00

Thank you Peer and James trying to explain it to us. I really appreciate it. :agree:

*Trying to mind-meld with geniuses at work*
Ok, the NTSC movie is slowed down, causing "judder" or lag, for PAL the sound is pitched up causing sound distortion?

So ReClock will - in the latter case - speed up the movie just a bit to 30fps (unnoticably). And with PAL you might better readjust the monitor frequency to 50Hz and ReClock will "lock on" the video to that rate.

Ok, I use Vista right now. :p And so far I can tell - I can't change to 50Hz. My NEC LCD offers only 60Hz and 75 Hz. I guess this is one many reasons you have a dislike for this OS. Can LCD monitors be force adjusted to 50 HZ at all?

But as a alternative to ReClock: Intervideo has developed a technique they call TrueSpeed for WinDVD that will play PAL DVDs converted from NTSC DVDs at the correct speed. Have you tried that feature? Shouldn't that work, especially for Vista users?

James

7th March 2007, 21:20

But as a alternative to ReClock: Intervideo has developed a technique they call TrueSpeed for WinDVD that will play PAL DVDs converted from NTSC DVDs at the correct speed. Have you tried that feature?
Yes, it sucks. You can't compare it to reclock.

Peer

8th March 2007, 03:49

Ok, I use Vista right now. :p And so far I can tell - I can't change to 50Hz. My NEC LCD offers only 60Hz and 75 Hz. I guess this is one many reasons you have a dislike for this OS. Can LCD monitors be force adjusted to 50 HZ at all?

I don't think it's so much a problem of your LCD but rather the graphics card driver.
The LCD should take 50, no problem.
The driver settings typically only show up with 60Hz, because usually that's the ideal refresh rate for normal use of an LCD.
NVidia also only offers 60Hz by default, but has the option to add user defined refresh rates. I don't know about the Vista-version right now, I'd have to reboot. But I'd guess it's the same there.

khlb

8th March 2007, 06:50

NVidia also only offers 60Hz by default, but has the option to add user defined refresh rates. I don't know about the Vista-version right now, I'd have to reboot. But I'd guess it's the same there.

I rechecked the Release Notes for latest beta 101.41 (http://us.download.nvidia.com/Windows/101.41/101.41_ForceWare_Release_Notes.pdf).

On page 5 and 6 can we find the following information:

• INF Support for Restricted Timings
This driver version does not support the use of Restricted Timing settings
(R&T strings) in the INF to control mode validation and/or mode setting for
custom mode/adapter/monitor combinations. This capability is planned for
a later driver release.

• Advanced Timings, Custom Resolutions
This driver does not support adding arbitrary resolutions and timings.

• Mode Filtering for Custom Policies
This driver does not support defining advanced timings and resolution
settings.

Features Not Yet Available in the NVIDIA Control Panel
Support for the following control panel features is under development and not
yet available under Windows Vista:
• Display Category
• Run display optimization wizard
• Move CRT screen position
• Manage custom timings
• Run multiple display wizard
• Change flat panel scaling
• Video & Television Category
• Run television setup wizard
• Adjust television color settings
• Adjust screen size and position

So there we have it, I and other nVidia users have to wait for a later ForceWare-release.

oldjoe

8th March 2007, 11:23

Let's rephrase it: Would you pay for a commercial "ReClock" which works better than the free ReClock on XP?

Still.....no

PeebZ

9th March 2007, 02:14

Let's rephrase it: Would you pay for a commercial "ReClock" which works better than the free ReClock on XP?

Yes. yes I would!

capitano

9th March 2007, 13:10

Yes. yes I would!

me toooooo!:agree: :agree:

SlyFox 1

9th March 2007, 13:48

me toooooo!:agree: :agree: I agree if the price was not to steep I would gladly pay for it.:clap:

Faye

9th March 2007, 13:53

I'm still not sure what ReClock will accomplish for me anyway. I have an HDTV with 1080p output at 50 or 60 hz.

AnyDVD will switch to the appropriate one depending on a disk being inserted being pal or ntsc... however, to screw things up royally, HDDVDs are often 24fps. I don't think there's a way (apart from 3:2 pullup) to fix that.

What does ReClock do additionally? What can be done about 24fps movies?

James

9th March 2007, 15:00

khlb

10th March 2007, 09:20

I imagine that right now I am (like Neo 8)) still feeling a bit like Alice...

Neo : .....?
Morpheus : Tumbling down the rabbit hole? Hmm?

:)

I personally love reclock and I don't want to live without it anymore. But starting from scratch is too much work for me.
As the development of reclock seems to have come to an end, I beg the author of reclock to release the sources.

Since I don't have a Region 1 DVD in my collection, it is only the 4% speed up problem that is nagging me now. Didn't know about this before I joined this forum.:doh:

If by a long shot you did receive the source - could you add this support to AnyDVD first, then create a platinum version - like AnySoundcard (<--Another stupid name, I know :D )

What about Blue-ray and HD DVD? Does the problem exist on those platforms?

James

10th March 2007, 09:35

I imagine that right now I am (like Neo 8)) still feeling a bit like Alice...

Neo : .....?
Morpheus : Tumbling down the rabbit hole? Hmm?

:)

Since I don't have a Region 1 DVD in my collection, it is only the 4% speed up problem that is nagging me now. Didn't know about this before I joined this forum.:doh:

If by a long shot you did receive the source - could you add this support to AnyDVD first, then create a platinum version - like AnySoundcard (<--Another stupid name, I know :D )

I don't think reclocking has anything to do with AnyDVD's operation.

What about Blue-ray and HD DVD? Does the problem exist on those platforms?
4% PAL speedup? Not at the moment, as all current European & Australian discs are authored with 23.98fps. This may or may not change in the future. (Most Studio Canal / Kinowelt / Optimum discs suffer from 4% PAL speedup because of an authoring bug, but that's another story... I hope they fix it for Terminator 2, L'armee des ombres, Ran)
3:2 pulldown judder? Yes, because all discs are mastered with 23.98fps.

khlb

10th March 2007, 10:19

I don't think reclocking has anything to do with AnyDVD's operation.

Ok I understand this feature is best provided by a DVD-software player or ReClock, and let AnyDVD do what this software is good at - be a middleman between the optical drive and DVD player software.

:agree:

Thanks for sharing the status of HD/BR movie releases!

Charlie

10th March 2007, 11:27

Allot of people interested now it seems. Glad I brought it up to everyone to post if they would want it. This would be a nice if it's not too high like Slyfox_1 said.

SlyFox 1

10th March 2007, 12:35

Allot of people interested now it seems. Glad I brought it up to everyone to post if they would want it. This would be a nice if it's not too high like Slyfox_1 said.
Great thread Charlie.:clap:

Charlie

10th March 2007, 14:29

Well considering the original code was free what is the price range that is "reasonable" in your opinion?

rbombardieri

14th October 2007, 09:07

AnyDVD states:

"Decryption is not all that AnyDVD offers. You can control the drive speed of your DVD drive, allowing you to reduce the noise level when watching movies on your PC. You can even adjust the display frequency of your monitor for both NTSC and PAL displays."

But I cannot find how the adjustment is made!

I live in region 1 and I am tying to backup a region 2 PAL disk. the backup removed the region but PAL does not play on my DVD player. What can I do?

Adbear

14th October 2007, 09:51

Charlie

14th October 2007, 10:01

Wow I forgot this thread but it looks like it is a no as not too many users want this? Man I was hoping for DVDReclock.

LINUS

14th October 2007, 10:07

Hm, strange as this may sound, I discover this thread for the first time now.

It's a pity reclock is not developed any futher any more...
Still, reclock is very important for people who want to listen to real cinema sound track on DVDs rather than those chip monk versions the Europeans have gotten used to.
And under XP reclock still serves an excellent job stabilzing audio/video when you take the game really seriously, also working quite well with BR/HD-DVD under PDVD Ultra.

Any news on the whole enterprise?

Thanks....

James

14th October 2007, 10:08

Hm, I never saw this thread, it's a pity reclock is not developed any futher any more...

It is, SlySoft has taken over development.

LINUS

14th October 2007, 10:11

It is, SlySoft has taken over development.

Wow, this is the best news for months! I rejoice ;)

Charlie

14th October 2007, 10:13

It is, SlySoft has taken over development.

This is great news. :bowdown:

SamuriHL

14th October 2007, 11:03

It is, SlySoft has taken over development.

What?! When did that happen!?!?!? That's awesome news!! Build that bad boy right into AnyDVD. :D

Charlie

14th October 2007, 11:20

Question is will it be free to existing customors or will there be a cap again as in the beginning there was talk that this wasn't going to just be an update but an upgrade. SamuraiHL I knew you'd love this news. The funny thing is I did start this thread and um yea forgot it existed.

SamuriHL

14th October 2007, 11:35

Yea, I remember this thread from way back, too. I also forgot James said this function doesn't belong in AnyDVD. Ah well, that'd simply be convenient. Nonetheless, this is definitely a welcome addition to the Slysoft family. If they can get it to work with Vista I'll be extremely happy. I've got some PAL dvd's that this would be great for.

edo

14th October 2007, 15:39

SamuriHL

14th October 2007, 15:41

I would LOOOOOOVE reclock for Vista.

I am running 720p72 on my crt and feeding the scaler 1080p24 from the HTPC, and would love to feed it 23.96 to stop that occasional stutter.

Can I request that it please be a stand alone program? I've already spent weeks/months ripping my HD movie library and cannot take the time to redo them all.

It would be great if it could run during playback (not implemented during the ripping process)

It would *NEVER* be incorporated into the ripping process. I only want it added to AnyDVD for playback regardless of the source. AnyDVD is not a ripper for a lot of people, but, an integral part of an HTPC for playback. But, I think it'll be stand alone as James doesn't think it belongs in AnyDVD.

DetroitBaseball

14th October 2007, 15:44

I do not clearly understand all the uses of ReClock. Can someone please break this down for me?

SamuriHL

14th October 2007, 15:45

I do not clearly understand all the uses of ReClock. Can someone please break this down for me?

http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=16589&postcount=7

DetroitBaseball

14th October 2007, 15:46

http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=16589&postcount=7
That's all it does? Most people wouldn't even need that.

SamuriHL

14th October 2007, 15:47

That's all it does? Most people wouldn't even need that.

That's certainly one opinion, but, I think you'll find that all of us HTPC users would STRONGLY disagree with you.

DetroitBaseball

14th October 2007, 15:58

That's certainly one opinion, but, I think you'll find that all of us HTPC users would STRONGLY disagree with you.
That's about the only group of people that would need it. So like I said, most people wouldn't need it.

LINUS

14th October 2007, 15:59

That's all it does? Most people wouldn't even need that.

No, there are a lot of things reclock can do, some best explained by reading the notes of the author directly:

http://reclock.free.fr/

Reclock is actually working quite fine, it just hasn't been developed any further for over a year now, and all good things can always be improved (well, at least that is true for software, I think).

Anyhow, it's really great news that James has just announced that Slysoft will continue developing reclock.

SamuriHL

14th October 2007, 15:59

That's about the only group of people that would need it. So like I said, most people wouldn't need it.

You love to make assumptions, don't you? It's fine if YOU don't need it, but, I seriously would avoid generalizing like that.

SamuriHL

14th October 2007, 16:00

No, there are a lot of things reclock can do, some best explained by reading the notes of the author directly:

http://reclock.free.fr/

Reclock is actually working quite fine, it just hasn't been developed any further, and all good things can always be improved (well, at least that is true for software).

Anyhow, I count on Slysoft jumping in here, and it's really great news that James has just announced that.

Well, it works fine except for Vista, which I really need. If they can get it working in Vista I'd be extremely happy.

DetroitBaseball

14th October 2007, 16:00

You love to make assumptions, don't you? It's fine if YOU don't need it, but, I seriously would avoid generalizing like that.
It still would be a nice tool. It's a good pickup by Slysoft as long as they don't have to put a ton of work into it.

Dekyon

14th October 2007, 16:39

This is really a great news. Reclock is a master tool for me.
I love Slysoft!

DetroitBaseball

14th October 2007, 16:42

Any timetable on a Slysoft release of DVDReClock?

Charlie

14th October 2007, 17:03

Wow never thought an ideal of mine woud spark up an excitment after the thread died so to speak and then bam we are all happy. :D

multiblitz

14th October 2007, 18:45

THIS WOULD BE WONDERFUL !!!

And WISE, very wise.

Why ? If you wanr to be successful in the market think exactly about who are your customers and what do they want.

There is a huge HTPC-MArket. And this is an underpenetrated market. With ANYDVDHD you gave us already an extremly valuable program to feed our media servers. Vista clearly has the best picture quality with Nvidia cards today, but it has some shortfall. No Reclock. No custom timings. Solve this and I would be happy to pay for it.

SlyFox 1

14th October 2007, 19:16

Great idea. Loads of people would really like this.:agree:

Charlie

14th October 2007, 19:24

SamuriHL or DetroitBaseball was the ones that gave me the ideal to see if there was enough demand for slysoft to look into this and glad to see there is. I rarely have great ideals though.

SlyFox 1

14th October 2007, 20:06

I give credit where credit is due. It is a good idea.;)

midi

15th October 2007, 03:47

Hi guys,

just registered on this forum because I heared that SlySoft bought the reclock code ?? WOW, finally we might be able to get constant and reliable reclock development. This is the day of the year for me !!!

I would definitely buy reclock and I would be glad to assist in any betatesting (I did test a lot for Ogo, the original author a few years back).

Just one request from me: Please keep the event notifications (vb script) or add something similar. I desperately need the feature to change the refresh rate of my beamer according to the frame rate of the video. This is the one reason why I haven´t changed to Windows Vista yet.

When will Slysoft´s reclock be out ?

Thanks,
Alex

Charlie

15th October 2007, 08:41

midi

15th October 2007, 08:55

Hi Charlie,

I understand. Nevertheless, I am very happy and anxiously waiting for Slysoft to release something. I guess the same goes for you :-)

Bye
Alex

Charlie

15th October 2007, 09:00

Hi Charlie,

I understand. Nevertheless, I am very happy and anxiously waiting for Slysoft to release something. I guess the same goes for you :-)

Bye
Alex

Yes as I more less petitioned this thread to be what it is and will become, Plus I am on Vista so a big plus.

Dekyon

15th October 2007, 10:07

It is unknown in fact this thread is pretty old and we all just found this out yesterday.

Yes Charlie, but james wtore this just yesterday: :)
It is, SlySoft has taken over development.

Sorry, but this news about the return of reclock make me happy! :agree:

Bitmonster

15th October 2007, 12:27

Great news! I also just registered because I really appreciate a further development of ReClock. If you need betatesters, you can add me to the list. (I'm a moderator of the old ReClock forum btw.)

SamuriHL

15th October 2007, 12:33

It's great to see so much interest in this. This should prove beyond a doubt that there's a market for this product.

Charlie

15th October 2007, 14:14

It's great to see so much interest in this. This should prove beyond a doubt that there's a market for this product.

I agree :clap::bowdown: Thanks to the original poster :p:D

MonkeyBall

15th October 2007, 20:28

It is great news to learn that reclock may be back! Hopefully you can implement compatibility with the latest video renderers such Haali Video Renderer or EVR. I would be certainly ready to pay for it, but please just keep the reclock concept as it was: a single direct show filter, no need to create some bundle with some other software. Thanks.

Any chance you can give us some info about your plans regarding it?

SamuriHL

15th October 2007, 20:41

Ok, with the obvious insane amount of interest in Reclock, I have a thought for you, James. I will agree that with SO many people interested in it, a stand alone product is definitely a good idea. However, how about a compromise with me? :) How about a checkbox that becomes enabled in AnyDVD when Reclock is detected on the machine that says something like "automatically load Reclock when DVD inserted" or something sweet like that? :) I'm sure we could hash out some kind of sweet integration to make it seemless, but, a stand alone program is fine with me given all the interest.

midi

16th October 2007, 02:03

Hi guys !

It is great news to learn that reclock may be back! Hopefully you can implement compatibility with the latest video renderers such Haali Video Renderer or EVR. I would be certainly ready to pay for it, but please just keep the reclock concept as it was: a single direct show filter, no need to create some bundle with some other software. Thanks.

I agree, although the idea of using a virtual soundcard instead of a DS renderer doesnt sound very bad either and may be much more compatible with some apps and future OSes.

Alex

MimiKri

16th October 2007, 04:52

Hi,

This is great news. I got here via a link from the reclock forum, and I am VERY pleased to see Reclock alive. Reclock is in my opinion one of the most (if not the most) useful piece of Software in the HTPC-world. Sure, I would pay for a STANDALONE version of ReClock, as AnyDVD isn't allowed where I live

Peter

sanderh

16th October 2007, 06:20

The news that ReClock will be available again made my day!!! I ve allways been a huge fan of this little most usefull app. on my HTPC ever made. Despite of some still on-going problems I think reclock rocks! I really would pay for a new version of the program. Can a moderator here please subscribe/register me so I can be a beta tester of 'Slysoft Reclock'? I was not a moderator on the lod ReClock forum but have lot of experiance with the program and do know the ins and outs.

ps. Sorry for the bad English.

greetings.

SamuriHL

16th October 2007, 08:04

That's about the only group of people that would need it. So like I said, most people wouldn't need it.

Soooooo, uhhhhhhh, would you like to retract your previous statement yet? :D As you can see, a LOT of people DO need it and want it very badly. I think it's VERY clear that Slysoft has a market for this.

sanderh

16th October 2007, 08:22

10 people is not a market yet. However, I DO think there are enough people that can use a improved version of reclock especially since Vista is here. I m very active on a Dutch HT-forum and there are lots of people there who would be willing to pay for an improved reclock application.

Charlie

16th October 2007, 08:24

There isn't just 10 people though. We are on page 7 in favor for this but not all posts are refering to I want either but 80% of them is.

SamuriHL

16th October 2007, 09:26

This forum alone isn't indicative of how much of a market there is. But the interest level here shows that there is a LOT of potential. Once more people hear that Slysoft is developing it, I am sure we'll see even more interest.

sanderh

16th October 2007, 10:05

so let s put a link on forums like AVS, TheaterTek, PowerDVD etc. :agree:

SamuriHL

16th October 2007, 10:11

That'd be great. The more people that know about this the better I think. Showing Slysoft that there is a huge market potential from the HTPC crowd will only motivate them further. :)

Charlie

16th October 2007, 10:16

The demand is known or they wouldn't of said we are picking up where the original author left off. If I remember right it'll be a bit more than just a reclock too.

YGPMOLE

16th October 2007, 11:40

Hi to everybody!

I heared this news from an Italian HTPC Forum (http://www.avmagazine.it/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=28), and I registred myself to report you my experience and our situation.

Reclock it's absolutely THE "killer application" for the Windows XP O.S. based HTPCs and CRT Projectors users: it resolves all the problems in coupling the different internal graphic card and sound card clock, making possible to have a perfect "smooth and fluid" panning playback with any DVDs (PAL and NTSC, both film or video), with no stutter at all.

In my experience, I have seen that the digital projector user are less sensible about stuttering due to the 3:2 pulldown from 24fps (NTSC) to 60HZ or from 25fps, that becomes part of their way of view a film (I mean: it becomes a normal playback, with few sporadic stutters).
Less sensible at all are the TV user, due to a reduced size of the display.

Now, some HTPC users are leaving ReClock just because it is not more developed: using alternative method as the EVR in Vista O.S., or just trying to not use it to not depend on it hereafter!!!

But I assure that a new and/or up-to-date program will be appreciated from Xp and Vista O.S. users, and they will be glad to pay it - as all does for AnyDVDHD - if it will be not excessive expensive, me first!!!

Last thing: sorry for all my possible english mistakes...!!!

onlinespending

16th October 2007, 11:48

Let's rephrase it: Would you pay for a commercial "ReClock" which works better than the free ReClock on XP?

I most certainly would. As long as it works for all DirectShow movies, and not just DVDs. Another "must have" feature is that it allow automatic refresh rate change to match with the video's frames per second. ReClock supports this by scripting with PowerStrip.

Basically, as a start I would attempt to mimick all features supported by the freeware ReClock. If the commercial version is continually supported, locks the video better to vsync, and offers more features, then I'd certainly be willing to pay for that.

onlinespending

16th October 2007, 11:50

Hi guys !

I agree, although the idea of using a virtual soundcard instead of a DS renderer doesnt sound very bad either and may be much more compatible with some apps and future OSes.

Alex

If a virtual soundcard is used, make sure 64-bit OSes are supported, including WinXP x64 and Vista x64. Regards.

Mark_A_W

16th October 2007, 17:08

Hi Guys - I'm the other moderator from the Reclock forum (although lately I had given up deleting the porn links...it just takes ages to access the reclock forum from Oz - so thanks Bitmonster for doing that recently).

I'm stocked to hear the Reclock may live on, and I'm willing to pay for it too (beta test as well).

But the discussions here seemed to have missed the main point of reclock - while reclock can be used to force a change in cadence, it's primary use is not really IVTC or PAL speeddown. The primary use is remove the little jumps and jerks that you get due to unsync'd video and audio clocks (assuming you are running a refresh rate that is a multiple of the source).

It's just VITAL for a decent HTPC, and I haven't had all that much luck with getting it to work with PowerDVD for HD-DVD. I get little clicks and pops (analogue out) and worse jumps and jerks with reclock. Fixing that would be number one priority!!

Anyway great to hear this news!!

Mark

sanderh

17th October 2007, 05:28

hi guys,

while were talking about ReClock and the fact that the are lots of ReClock geeks here, I hope maybe you guys could give me some input on some technical questions I have about ReClock:

1.
should you ALWAYS use WaveOut for AC3 signal in the first tab of ReClock config?

2.
When I lower the Sound Pre-Buffer Size (in ms) from 500 to 100 I achieve less delay in sound/picture. (at eg. 700 ms you hear people in the movie talk but is not synced with the picture shown; lip sync if I m correct)

3.
I put Resampling Quality on exellent. Do you guys hear diff. in Medium or Exellent or does it have other negative or positive effects to change this?)

4.
The Video Settings:
First of all I cannot start TheaterTek player when the Hardware Access Method is on Direct3D. So I put this on DirectDraw. However, I would like to know if there are advantages or disadvantages that I put it on DirectDraw.

5.
Than there's a question what s hard to explain cause of my bad English but Ill try:
When playing a PAL movie (or NTSC, doens t matter) you see in the ReClock properties at Media Speed (have it on Auto):
CINEMA adaption: media speed changed to 24 fps. Why is this? I mean, I have made a custom resolution with Powerstrip, in my case 48,065Hz, to achieve actual refresh rate of 47,950 shown in the Video Hardware under the Reclock Properties. This way I have a deviation of 0,002Hz which is in theory allmost perfect. However, if ReClock, like mentioned before, does a so-called CINEMA adaption and changes the media speed to 24fps sharp, isn t it than so that I should make a custom resolution with Powerstrip to achieve a refesh rate of EXACTLY (or very near by) 48,000Hz shown in the Video Hardware of the ReClock properties while playing a movie?
I hope this point is understandable for you guys.

6.
at the Sound Adaption under the ReClock properties it is for me not possible to change things there. Everyting is grayed out. Why could this be and could this be a problem?

7.
the V-Sync correction. I ve read somewhere that these days these settings are not required anymore. I don t remember WHY but could you guys give me some advise in whether to use V-Sync correction or not?

8.
Give high CPU priority to player: on or off?

Reason why I asked all these questions is that I have some stutter problems for long time now and don t know where to look anymore. Also I m interested in how these things exactly work.

see also this the following thread for my problem:
http://www.theatertek.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=8844

my setup:
Intel Dual Core E6750 processor
Asus P5B-V motherboard
1,5 gb internal memory
Nvidia 7600GS 256mb ddr2 card
Maxtor 6Y160M0 HD
RME DiGi 96/8 PAD soundcard
NEC DVD RW ND-4571A
XP with SP2 with for all hardware the latest drivers
TheaterTek 2.6 with FFDSHOW andy's version only resize x2
Powerstrip for customized refresh rates
Reclock latest beta version
Girder 4 for controlling my Logitech Harmony Remote Control

Dekyon

17th October 2007, 05:59

When playing a PAL movie (or NTSC, doens t matter) you see in the ReClock properties at Media Speed (have it on Auto):
CINEMA adaption: media speed changed to 24 fps. Why is this? I mean, I have made a custom resolution with Powerstrip, in my case 48,065Hz, to achieve actual refresh rate of 47,950 shown in the Video Hardware under the Reclock Properties. This way I have a deviation of 0,002Hz which is in theory allmost perfect. However, if ReClock, like mentioned before, does a so-called CINEMA adaption and changes the media speed to 24fps sharp, isn t it than so that I should make a custom resolution with Powerstrip to achieve a refesh rate of EXACTLY (or very near by) 48,000Hz shown in the Video Hardware of the ReClock properties while playing a movie?Hi Sanderh, I think that all technical question are to be ask after the first beta of new reclock are out, don't you think? ;)
Howevere I try to discuss with you of the point 5.
You write about 24 fps. Intend for HD material, like hddvd, bluray or WMV? This because PAL standard video is on 25 fps and NTSC is on 30. Can you explain?

sanderh

17th October 2007, 06:17

Hi Sanderh, I think that all technical question are to be ask after the first beta of new reclock are out, don't you think? ;)
Howevere I try to discuss with you of the point 5.
You write about 24 fps. Intend for HD material, like hddvd, bluray or WMV? This because PAL standard video is on 25 fps and NTSC is on 30. Can you explain?

I own R1 and R2 standard def. dvd's. When playing a R1 dvd (NTSC?) it is ALWAYS a 23,976fps film (only the bonus material etc. is often in 29,976)

sanderh

17th October 2007, 06:19

and about the new reclock:
has it been confirmed by Slysoft that there working on a new version? And can we mail somebody of Slysoft and ask for a beta release of a new ReClock?

Dekyon

17th October 2007, 06:28

Ok.
The first thing is that you should set the refresh rate of the monitor near to the original fps of the source.

Pal is 25 fps then set the rate to 50 or 75.
NTSC movie is 23.976 then set the rate to 48 or 72.
NTSC tv is 29.976 then set the rate to 60.

Do you set this frequency? Or you use always 48 Hz forcing with powerstrip?

SlySoft has confirmed. You can read the James's post on page 3. And I think that they read all this thread. But I think also that is no mature time to ask question about beta release or techincal questions. No one really imagine what kind of software the new reclock will be... Wait and patience... ;)

P.S. if you want some speed in our discuss, we can continue in MSN

sanderh

17th October 2007, 06:59

Charlie

17th October 2007, 08:28

and about the new reclock:
has it been confirmed by Slysoft that there working on a new version? And can we mail somebody of Slysoft and ask for a beta release of a new ReClock?

I am sure the first beta will indeed be a closed on just like it was with anydvd with the new AI Scanner.

Mark_A_W

17th October 2007, 08:32

Sanderh

8. I use High CPU priority (why not?).

7. As for using V-sync, there's talk you don't need it with VMR9, but I always get good results with it.

6. Dunno.

5. I asked Ogo the same question as your number 5 - why does 23.976fps media get converted to CINEMA at 24fps.

The only answer I got was that 23.976 was within the allowable error for CINEMA, and there really was no difference, despite what the UI said.

The whole resampled 48000hz to 48048hz has always bugged me.

4. As for Direct3d/Direct Draw - if you are using Renderless Exclusive/Fullscreen mode, you have to use Direct Draw. Dunno why, other than Direct3d no workee.

3. I use hardware resampling with my Revo5.1, on Excellent from memory. But I typically use Reclock with SPDIF (as I don't use it with HD-DVD/Bluray), so it doesn't matter really for me.

2. Dunno.

1. Dunno.

Tried to post on the Reclock forum, didn't work, I get this strange Debug error. The forum software is corrupt :(

Webslinger

17th October 2007, 13:10

P.S. if you want some speed in our discuss, we can continue in MSN

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=864

YGPMOLE

17th October 2007, 14:24

@Sanderh

1. Yes!

2. My synch is perfect, so I never tried to change it, sorry...

3. I always used excelent, so I never tried to change it, sorry again...

4. With VMR9 you have to use Directdraw! if not, you get the error alert from the video card driver: and, if you answers "yes" to the window, almost surely you will have lipsynch delay and/or speed acceleration during DVDs playback.

5. To get the best possible synchronization, the rules is: video hardware refresh rate must be egual (or doubled) video software refresh rate.
The ReClock correction changes NTSC film (23.976fps) to 24fps and the NTSC video (29.970fps) to 60fps - nothing happens with PAL.
So, the correct display refresh rate must be:
PAL 50 Hz, NTSC film 48Hz, NTSC video 60Hz (or entire multiples, obviosly...).

6. Did you install the last Reclock version (1.7 Beta 4) on a new and clear O.S. installation? I got no problems, even if I not tried to use it...

7. The reason is that VMR9 exclusive mode (in TheaterTek) uses a proper internal V-synch, so may be not more necessary use it. But, I still use it (just checking the box and leaving the vsynch bar in default position)...

8. On (why not??!?).

The most usual stutter problems are:

1) CPU saturation: look to the single CPU utilization, even for Hypertrading or dual core CPUs.

2) Uncorretc V-Synch positioning (look the ReClock V-Synch procedure).

3) Background programs (often Internet and/or local LAN - wireless too - may create a CPU utilization peaks due to the connection controls).

4) Wrong graphic card size setting in the Mobo features.

A suggest: try to start from a new and clear installation, with a minimal configuration (just TheaterTek and ReClock) and find out what new software creates the stuttering... It's a long and patiente-proof job, but usually it works.

Last thing: I don't like your custom resolution with a not entire refresh rate, and I think this are the most indiziated to solve your problem.

Dekyon

17th October 2007, 15:32

If people are offering to send you file attachments or suggesting you instant message them, think twice. If people are suggesting you email them, take care. Many people offering help can send you trojans instead.Hey! I'm not a trojans dispenser! I'm honest! :policeman:
In all my life never spam, pirate dvd an so on.

Charlie

17th October 2007, 15:45

Hey! I'm not a trojans dispenser! I'm honest! :policeman:
In all my life never spam, pirate dvd an so on.

Just a standard warning to those that engage in this and no one says you are but it's a general warning for anyone that says this.

Webslinger

17th October 2007, 18:04

Hey! I'm not a trojans dispenser! I'm honest! :policeman:
In all my life never spam, pirate dvd an so on.

Charlie is correct. I'm not accusing you. I'm an issuing a general warning.

Momber

18th October 2007, 08:04

Great news! I also just registered because I really appreciate a further development of ReClock.
Same here :)
I registered specifically to let the kind folks at SlySoft know that I, too, would like to see development of ReClock continued and I would also be prepared to pay money for it if necessary.
Have been a ReClock user since day one and I would go so far as saying each and every HTPC imperatively needs ReClock, without it, a PC is not a HTPC at all.
My name may also be added to the list of volunteers for beta-testing, if desired.

And a big Thank You to SlySoft for AnyDVD and AnyDVD-HD!!!

Cheers
S.

sanderh

18th October 2007, 08:44

so, I ve took some time to 'take stock' at some people I know in the Netherlands who are all HTPC entheusiasts. There where thrilled by the news of a new version of ReClock!! Really, I have got a personal list that s now almost 30 people! who are willing to pay for a new ReClock version!!! And I think that the news will be spread very fast cause all those people are going to tell this news to THEIR friends and so on! :agree::clap:

sanderh

18th October 2007, 08:47

just curious:
did someone already managed to get in contact with Ogo the last half year or so? I have a strange feeling that something might be wrong with him. :(

Momber

18th October 2007, 10:31

I have a strange feeling that something might be wrong with him. :(
That is my impression also.

S.

Mark_A_W

18th October 2007, 18:02

just curious:
did someone already managed to get in contact with Ogo the last half year or so? I have a strange feeling that something might be wrong with him. :(

I've tried on both the e-mail address in the reclock instructions, and his Paypal e-mail address, a few months ago now. No answer.

Comer

21st October 2007, 16:46

For me Reclock has always been an absolute necessity through all my PC evolutions. I have, until recently, found it very useful for HD-DVD and Blu-ray with PowerDVD. But the latest patch of PowerDVD disables the use of reclock:mad:. So, I would also definately pay for a new version of reclock that works with the latest PowerDVd patches.

VernHD

22nd October 2007, 08:34

sanderh

22nd October 2007, 10:42

I would also be interested in Reclock at a reasonable price. Before HD DVD and BD, I used Reclock regularly. Unfortunately, with PowerDVD Ultra, reclock destabilizes the environment enough to not be worth the hassle. Also, lack of support has always been a big issue for me.

Vern

Hi Vern Dias!

I see you pop-up on the net EVERYWHERE! ;)
I m a member of the TheaterTek forum where you where also very active in the past.

Are you still using TT (2.6)?

wineds

23rd October 2007, 22:38

I am in too! This would be great for judder free Blu-ray playback as I have an Epson TW1000 projector that cannot render at 24fps! Bring it on Slysoft!

VernHD

24th October 2007, 19:25

Yep, it's me. Still use Theatertek for all my DVD playback. Having to use PowerDVD and the old standby AR control software YXY for HD, though.

Vern

deaacs

25th October 2007, 01:44

I always assumed progressive NTSC was played at 24fps on PC's - are you saying that PowerDVD/WinDVD plays NTSC DVD's at 23.976fps??

LINUS

25th October 2007, 01:46

PowerDVD and the old standby AR control software YXY for HD, though.

Isn't it amazing that YXY is still working and useful?

However, starting with patch 3104 of PDVD YXY isn't working anymore, another problem besides reclock which isn't good for the newest version (3319).

sanderh

29th October 2007, 02:42

lets keep this topic warm for the Slysoft Developers :clap::clap:

James

29th October 2007, 07:30

just curious:
did someone already managed to get in contact with Ogo the last half year or so? I have a strange feeling that something might be wrong with him. :(
I did (well, otherwise we wouldn't be able to take over ReClock), and I don't believe anything is "wrong" with him. He is just incredibly busy, that's all.

scribe5

29th October 2007, 09:00

lets keep this topic warm for the Slysoft Developers :clap::clap:

i'm onboard for a copy when it's ready--great news

sanderh

29th October 2007, 09:19

James, can you already give us some inside info on ReClock developing? Maybe you can say something like a first beta version will be released Q4 2007, Q1 2008 or later in 2008 or something like that?

Charlie

29th October 2007, 09:20

Allot of minor things needs to be done with AnyDVD so it may be just a bit before a beta or release I would think.

Clams

29th October 2007, 11:04

I'm using PowerDVD (older version) with NTSC DVD's. All said and done my playback of a DVD (made from a film) is 24 frames per second. I set my projector and Nvidia card for 48 frames per second. I get perfect playback showing each frame twice with no Judder -and yes I can see it.

-W

sanderh

5th November 2007, 11:43

Topic Up! :d

James

5th November 2007, 16:00

James, can you already give us some inside info on ReClock developing? Maybe you can say something like a first beta version will be released Q4 2007, Q1 2008 or later in 2008 or something like that?

No, I cannot. Sorry.

Peer

5th November 2007, 18:00

I did (well, otherwise we wouldn't be able to take over ReClock), and I don't believe anything is "wrong" with him. He is just incredibly busy, that's all.

...which, very unfortunately, is not only true for him...

SamuriHL

5th November 2007, 18:02

...which, very unfortunately, is not only true for him...

Bah, what, you think you're busy these days, Peer? I mean, come on, it's not like you need to work on HD cracking code or anything. :D LOL!

lpg

6th November 2007, 00:50

There is a sticky thread on AVSFORUM http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=719041 for Audio/Video setup that references the setup for reclock. With the first release it would be good to let the thread owner update the link to Slysoft-reclock.

Mark_A_W

15th November 2007, 22:10

A bug report:

It's been driving me nuts for AGES now, at last there is hope that it may get fixed!!

Reclock does not detect the refresh rate of interlaced res's correctly on later ATi cards (x1950 and HD2600XT for instance).

If I set my display to 1920 x 1080 interlaced at 95.904 hz (which would be 47.952hz in powerstrip), reclock detects it as 48.000hz.
The 48.000 does not "move around" as it locks on like normal either. It's just 48.000 from the start.

From testing, it seems this causes me to get audio "pops" when using Analogue out for HD-DVD. The icon is green as 48 is a multiple of 24, but as the video card is really at 95.904 (or 47.952 depending on how you define it), it doesn't work properly.

It seems to be ok for SPDIF, but I don't want to use that for HD-DVD. So I'm using reclock for DVD/TS files via SPDIF, but not for HD-DVD....GRRR.

Also, if you set the video card to 71.928hz interlaced, it reports 36.000 hz, which doesn't work, not a multiple.

The behaviour is different to the detect with a old ATi 9500 or Nvidia cards, which will report 95.904hz, correctly.

(I might try setting my display to 96.000hz, rather than 95.904hz, which is technically incorrect, but might eliminate the "pops".)

Thanks

Mark

Cyberguyen

18th November 2007, 10:00

I have also been using ReClock for the past 2 years and would like to buy the software fron slysoft, if it garantees good support and further development.

I really look forward to the release and would love to help you betatest the software, even if require me to buy the paid version first :-)

I have a setup where I decode the AC3 sound into 6 channels and use ReClock to speed it and then reencode the 6 channels into DTS within the hardware of my soundcard.
Reclock is one of the reasons why I haven't upgraded to Vista yet.

multiblitz

18th November 2007, 17:58

Another consideration: Re-Clock is under XP a cure when you want to use a mediaserver over network as well with HD-DVDs...otherwise it stutter like hell...Slysoft should consider to comeup with a complete MEdia-Server-friendly offering, this is a perfect addition to your current scope of work and something where other software companies are not puting a focus on.

sanderh

26th November 2007, 07:53

UP! :D :bowdown::D

multiblitz

26th November 2007, 18:22

Interesting observation: with ffdshow and avissynth enabled in Vista and ZP 5.5B1 I got really bad stuttering, it becomes much less with reclock, but still not perfect...so a new reclock which works under Vista is really what we need...

midi

26th November 2007, 18:39

sanderh

27th November 2007, 11:47

so, Reclock works in Vista currently ? I thought it didnt .... ?

Midiboy,

I ve send you a PM about reclock

Comer

27th November 2007, 14:46

Midiboy,

I ve send you a PM about reclock

Oh please, share:). Reclock in Vista would be very helpful

midi

28th November 2007, 03:16

Oh please, share. Reclock in Vista would be very helpful

Hi Comer,

the private message was not about reclock in Vista so we don´t have any secrets. :)

Multiblitz posted the message about Vista. I have not even tried yet (still using XP ...)

Bye,
Alex

sanderh

7th December 2007, 05:18

Any news on a working beta version?

Charlie

7th December 2007, 08:41

I was just thinking of this ..... this morning too.

sanderh

12th December 2007, 14:36

Ok, so after beeing a HTPC geek for almost 10 years now there are still things to learn. So I m gonna make this thread hoping to get some input in a not to technical spoken way

I ve just bought a new projector, the PowerLite Home Cinema 1080 UB (or Epson TW2000 here in my country, the Netherlands ). Now, a specific feature of this pj is that he is capable of a 1920*1080@24p resolution. But I am wondering how and IF this can effect my HTPC in a positive way.

let s see, I know that in the filming industry 24fps is THE most standard thing for decades now. So if your display device supports 24p (like my Epson) AND your source supports 24p (like a PS3 I also own) AND the software is in 24p (like most HD and BR-discs at this moment I think?), you will have the perfect scenario for stutter free picture where nothing is altered. (Am I correct?)

But what about a HTPC which I use for playing standard def. R1 and R2 dvd's? What is the best refresh rate to pick with this new pj of mine? This afternoon I ve tried a custom made resolution with Entech Powerstrip of 1920*1080@23,976Hz. After this I loaded my dvd playback software, which is in my case TheaterTek 2.6.
Looking at Reclock, which is also installed on my HTPC, I got the following info: the so called 'drops' in ReClock increased with eg. 1 drop per second! So after 1 minute of playing a dvd I already had over 60 drops! My first question is there:
How can it be that reclock reports so many drops with this custom made res.+refresh rate?

After this I made a 1920*1080@47,952Hz custom resolution with Powerstrip. ReClock than worked normally with 0-2 drops per movie which is great.

However, I would like to know the explanation why reclock behaved so peculiar with the 23,976 refresh rate......

Maybe I m missing the big picture here and overlooking some essential basic things I need to know but that s why I posted this.

Thank you very much for all input and sorry for the bad English.

greetings.

edit: my video card is a Nvidia 7600GS 256mb ddr2 card

I know this all is a little off-topic (or a lot:)) but because there are so many ReClock users in this thread now I think maybe some guys can feed me with good input.

Dekyon

13th December 2007, 06:06

24p is used only with bluray and hddvd. R1 and R2 standard DVD use the "old" refresh rate 60 & 50 Hz.

James

13th December 2007, 06:13

24p is used only with bluray and hddvd. R1 and R2 standard DVD use the "old" refresh rate 60 & 50 Hz.

With ReClock 24p can be used for NTSC & PAL DVDs as well. :D

LINUS

13th December 2007, 06:14

24p is used only with bluray and hddvd. R1 and R2 standard DVD use the "old" refresh rate 60 & 50 Hz.

No, not really. Well mastered NTSC DVDs that are film based were always mastered with 23,976 and §:2 repeat flags for 60Hz, respectively.

I am playing NTSC (DVDs etc.) with double frame rate 48Hz since ages and since about two years also with 24p.

Also: With PAL you are able to slow frame rate down to a multiple of 24 and correct PAL speedup (but you can do that at 50Hz as well, of course).

Just a little insight what Reclock can do.... amazing!

edit: James beat me to it ;)

seeya

13th December 2007, 08:09

Well mastered NTSC DVDs that are film based were always mastered with 23,976 and §:2 repeat flags for 60Hz, respectively.
Incorrect.

http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#1.40
There's enormous confusion about whether DVD video is progressive or interlaced. Here's the one true answer: Progressive-source video (such as from film) is usually encoded on DVD as interlaced field pairs that can be reinterleaved by a progressive player to recreate the original progressive video.

The confusion comes from the fact that progressively flagged NTSC DVDs are handled by most software as being truely progressive while in reality in the background the MPEG2 decoder still decodes interlaced fields which are then combed together by following the flags. So if you ask a software whether a DVD is progressive or not, it will tell you the DVD is progressive, although in the deepest level it's not.

LINUS

13th December 2007, 09:22

Incorrect.

The confusion comes from the fact that progressively flagged NTSC DVDs

Okay, I wasn't talking about progressive vs interlaced. So I give you that the correct notion would be: film based NTSC DVDs are mastered as 47,952 i(nterlaced) with progressive flags and repeat flags (for 60Hz output).

Dekyon

13th December 2007, 16:03

With ReClock 24p can be used for NTSC & PAL DVDs as well. :DNot for pal. Pal DVD are encoded at 25 fps to play in TV that have 50 Hz scan rate. I'm italian and in Italy all DVD can be only play without stutters only at 25, 50 Hz and multiple value. This is the reason why all PAL movie material is "faster" aprox of 4%.
I'm not really sure for ntsc.

jbrisbin

13th December 2007, 17:01

Incorrect.

http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#1.40

The confusion comes from the fact that progressively flagged NTSC DVDs are handled by most software as being truely progressive while in reality in the background the MPEG2 decoder still decodes interlaced fields which are then combed together by following the flags. So if you ask a software whether a DVD is progressive or not, it will tell you the DVD is progressive, although in the deepest level it's not.

I would argue that at the deepest level the DVD is progressive, even though the progressive images are transported via interlaced fields. The fields are marked as part of a progressive image and when correctly reassembled both fields are coincident in time, creating a true progressive image (with no combing effects.)

The fact that the DVD spec requires that the images be carried in the MPEG stream as fields is a technology artifact that does not change the fact that the film went into the encoding process as a stream of progressive images and it leaves a player that reassembles them correctly in the same form.

Similarly, the TCP/IP networks that make up the internet are often carried on ATM backbones where the packets are chopped into tiny chunks and later reassembled back into nice clean TCP/IP packets, but you would never say that this web site is a creature of ATM.

Mark_A_W

19th December 2007, 01:42

Not for pal. Pal DVD are encoded at 25 fps to play in TV that have 50 Hz scan rate. I'm italian and in Italy all DVD can be only play without stutters only at 25, 50 Hz and multiple value. This is the reason why all PAL movie material is "faster" aprox of 4%.
I'm not really sure for ntsc.

You can for PAL films, using Reclock's PAL speed down feature and analogue out - they were 24fps to start with.

PAL video should be played at 25/50/75/100hz.

seeya

19th December 2007, 04:23

I would argue that at the deepest level the DVD is progressive, even though the progressive images are transported via interlaced fields. The fields are marked as part of a progressive image and when correctly reassembled both fields are coincident in time, creating a true progressive image (with no combing effects.)

The fact that the DVD spec requires that the images be carried in the MPEG stream as fields is a technology artifact that does not change the fact that the film went into the encoding process as a stream of progressive images and it leaves a player that reassembles them correctly in the same form.
I don't disagree. Unfortunately, there are many discs where the flags are set incorrectly. If you then "blindly" follow the flags you'll get lots of combing. Because of that every good progressive scan DVD player ignores the flags and uses a conventional deinterlacing chip which analyzes the content of the interlaced frames to find out which frames need to be put back together. That's what all those Realta, SiI504, Gennum etc chips are for which you find in Denon, Arcam etc DVD players.

sanderh

21st December 2007, 07:39

so, any news on a christmas beta ReClock version Slysoft?
It s too quit about news if you ask me......... WILL there become a new reclock version or can anyone of the Slysoft crew confirm a working version is in progress?

sanderh

21st December 2007, 09:04

When I use the reclock script, TheaterTek minimizes to the taskbar wheb switching from eg. 48 to 50Hz (different Powerstrip shortcuts). I thought that you have to alter some lines at the bottom of the script to fix this but don t know EXACTLY how. Can someone post this? thanks!

Mark_A_W

4th January 2008, 08:58

Bumpety bump.

Don't want this to disappear into the aether...

multiblitz

5th January 2008, 19:20

No, we really need it, especially for vista. My son (3 years old) LOVES phantom of the opera, so I have to watch parts of the movies sometimes 6 times a day...under XP with rre-clocke forced in pdvd: SUPER-Smooth, even with ha 60hz refresh-rate. With Vista an dno re-clock: stuttering all over the place. So, pleeeease...

sanderh

8th January 2008, 11:34

Charlie

8th January 2008, 11:50

It s beginning to take too long for news on a new ReClock version if you ask me. I still have some hope that Slysoft is working on a new version but until really confirmed by the makers of Slysoft I m not focussing to much on a re-release of THE all-time HTPC software: R E C L O C K

They can't just stop development of AnyDVD etc.... just for this alone. Give them time they had to do things the proper way just to be able to re-write it as well.

sanderh

9th January 2008, 03:47

Maybe it s good if a developer from Slysoft can confirm some things

Mark_A_W

9th January 2008, 08:10

Tried the Reclock forum today and got a French website:

"Erreur 403 - Refus de traitement de la requête"

Or "Error 403 - Treatment refusal of the request" in English.

Anyone else been there lately? Or is it dead??...

Charlie

9th January 2008, 10:55

It's not dead. Slysoft has gotten in touch with the original developer to gain rights to rework reclock as slysoft has to do things legally. From what was said in an earlier post there will be a bit more to reclock than what the product use to do from what we were told. With the problems with anydvd right now I doubt that James will chime in on this right now, but may later on.

ge0rgieee

11th January 2008, 16:24

Charlie

11th January 2008, 16:29

Yes I can't wait till it is developed either but I am waiting along with 100's of others.

ge0rgieee

11th January 2008, 16:52

I heard Reclock will only work with VMR or Overlay Mixer, do you know if slysoft will extend this to support all the other renderers?

Charlie

11th January 2008, 17:09

I heard Reclock will only work with VMR or Overlay Mixer, do you know if slysoft will extend this to support all the other renderers?

Sorry all I know is that slysoft is taking over the app and will get it up for sale when they can. It will be a bit more than what is did do too I heard. Again sorry this is all I know at the moment.

Mark_A_W

28th January 2008, 21:22

I heard Reclock will only work with VMR or Overlay Mixer, do you know if slysoft will extend this to support all the other renderers?

Reclock cannot use it's V-sync option when using the Haali Renderer. It still works, but not V-sync.
You may find it actually works better with Haali Render than V-sync+VMR9, due to the way the Haali Renderer buffers the video using the graphics memory.

sanderh

31st January 2008, 09:29

SlyClock :rock:, still waiting, bumperdiebum......

sanderh

27th February 2008, 07:38

and again one month later....... Still no news on a renewed ReClock version? A few months ago everybody here was so freakin happy and now the topic is not so hot anymore....... :(

Mark_A_W

27th February 2008, 08:48

I'm still hopeful :)

These are the bugs I know of:

- Doesn't work in Vista (apparently - I'm on XP)

- Doesn't detect the refresh rate properly for interlaced res's on newer ATi cards. It detects the "half" refresh rate, so 30.000hz for 1080i 59.94hz. This means 1080i 72hz doesn't work at all (36hz is not a multiple of 24). This is not how it behaves with other cards, and is wrong.
It also doesn't do it's normal "lock on" and just reports a close round number, like 48.000 instead of 47.952.

- Doesn't seem to work with 5.1 channel 24 bit 96khz PCM. 2 channel is ok on my system, but change the output in Zoom Player to 5.1 channel and it stops and starts in a strange manner and pegs the CPU at 100% for an instant (normally at ~3%) when it gliches. Doesn't matter if I use Hardware Resampling or not (I have a Revo 5.1 which is 192khz, 24bit capable).

- Kernal streaming doesn't work. I'd like to be able to play hi res 5.1 channel without it being molested by Kmixer. At the moment I'm using Directsound for analogue outs.

- There is an incompatibility with Haali Renderer, not a bug as such, but Haali Renderer will not allow Reclock to do V-sync. Playback is smoother with the Haali Renderer when Reclock is running, so maybe nothing to fix here, just an observation :)

I'd really love an updated version :) I've already donated to Ogo, twice I think, and I'm willing to put up my cash again!

deathlord

27th February 2008, 13:15

Kernal streaming doesn't work. I'd like to be able to play hi res 5.1 channel without it being molested by Kmixer. At the moment I'm using Directsound for analogue outs.
You can use waveout to get bitperfect output from reclock. At least it works for me.

Mark_A_W

27th February 2008, 16:42

With analogue out Deathlord?

deathlord

2nd March 2008, 06:32

No, I'm using the ADAT out of my rme hdsp 9632. But I can see no reason why it should not work with analogue out.

Mark_A_W

2nd March 2008, 07:36

Tony1M

2nd March 2008, 13:15

The day Slysoft releases their version of Reclock, I'll buy it.:agree:

James

2nd March 2008, 15:49

You can for PAL films, using Reclock's PAL speed down feature and analogue out - they were 24fps to start with.

PAL video should be played at 25/50/75/100hz.

And with reclock's help PAL can be played with 24/48... Hz as well.
I prefer this to the "PAL Speedup reverse" function in ReClock, as you get "the real thing(tm)" instead.

Charlie

2nd March 2008, 16:00

I'm interested on where's developement if there is progress already made it has been quite some time since you or the company said they are working on it.

deathlord

5th March 2008, 14:33

It can't be bit perfect with Reclock in the mix, not for analogue - it's being resampled constantly.

With SPDIF for oldschool DD/DTS, you could argue that it didn't matter, as only whole packets were dropped.

As far as I know, it is bitperfect. By using wavout you circumvent kmixer.
You can make the test: Play an audio file with reclock active. Reclock will indicate "bit perfect" if it is.
It won't be "all the way bitperfect" for movie playback of course. There reclock is resampling itself. But that's the whole point of reclock...

pcguru

7th March 2008, 18:35

Reclock in it's current form covers most of my needs but there is one problem it fails to help me with, and that is with all the movies that are 23.98 fps. Not 23.976 but 23.98. There's a lot of them, I don't know why, I think this whole refreshrate thing is some weird black art. :) But if 23.98 was available in the list of fps for movies I think it would make them super smooth as well as it could speed them up to 24 hz which would give me a lot less judder on my projector (capable of 24, 50 and 60 hz)

James

7th March 2008, 21:45

multiblitz

8th March 2008, 03:35

For highest playback-quality in HD-DVD/Blu-Ray you need for a 8600GT and PDVD Uktra Vista. In Vista it uses EVR instead of overlay. But in Vista Re-Clock does not work with PDVD. If this can get fixed, I would be an extremly happy man.

Momber

8th March 2008, 23:47

No, there aren't any movies with 23.98 fps.

I concur. The list of available refresh rates in reclock cover all the bases needed.

pcguru

11th March 2008, 08:54

Yes you were right, 23.98 is just what Media Player Classic reports in Properties - Details for the movies. :D

theshadowrunner

11th March 2008, 18:03

Hey All,
Since ReClock's official forum on free.fr is dead and the ReClock code now belongs to slysoft, here's a compilation of enhancements and bugs for the latest ReClock 1.7b4.
I really hope SlySoft can take it from there.

Enhancements:

- Add support for EVR and Haali's video renderers. (the "Tearing test" on those would be most interesting..)

- Add detection of framerate from h.264 video streams

- Option to blacklist some file extensions or video stream types from being treated by ReClock (I'm thinking of those crazy WMV files @ 120fps which make ReClock alternate all the time between 24fps and 30fps modes while the media is playing, and no, my display cannot do 120hz :/)

- Allow the user to define his own shortcuts to access the "Tearing Test" and "Show Vsync on screen". Shift+Ctrl+Alt+F9 or F10 is very impractical and very hard to emulate via an IR remote control (it works 2-3 times out of 10 button presses at most :/)
I would be perfectly happy with just "F9" & "F10" without all the rest hehe.

Bugs:

- Enabling/Disabling the "Tearing Test" doesn't sem to work the way it is supposed to.
The problem is that when enabling the "Tearing Test", Reclock will automatically enable the "Show Vsync on screen" feature as well.
And if we disable the "Show VSync on Screen feature", then everything disappears. It's not possible to have the "Tearing Test" running alone. Therefore why the need for 2 checkboxs (and 2 shortcuts)?

- The major and most annoying bug:
Pc specs: XPSP2, Geforce8500GT, nvidia 169.44, IntelE2180
Screen: sony hdtv with 1080p@48, 1080p@50 & 1080p@60
Reclock settings: Speed:"Auto (best)", always in PCM mode, no vsync correction for VMR9.
ZP video renderer: VMR9 windowed (VMR9 renderless & windowless have too much problems being displayed correctly after RunEvent.vbs resolution change, getting a persistent black screen most of the time with those renderers)
The bug :
If I let a video play without any interruption from start to finish, it will always be perfectly smooth all the time (the joys of watching the "tearing test" for 1h30 ). ReClock does its job perfectly.
But If i interract with the video, using fast-forward or rewind, maybe 2 times out of 10 when the video resumes at normal speed, it will be totally jerky.
I'm *not* talking about tearing, more in details, the "tearing test" will show the line "jumping", although the "vsync on screen" is perfectly stable and there's no tearing whatsoever.
A very easy way to correct this issue is to simply to pause, wait 2 seconds and then resume the video. Then everything becomes perfectly synced again.
What could be the cause of this?
It happens with all renderers (VMR7, Overlay, all VMR9s and EVEN VMR9 Renderless Exclusive.)
It happens will all video stream types, DVD movies included.
It happens under any frequency 48hz, 50Hz & 60hz.

According to Ogo (ReClock's author) "This is caused by the video renderer drawing each frame exactly during vertical blank, which is not a good idea. This problem is exacerbated with ReClock, because the video renderer will stay in sync with the video card, thus drawing each frame during vertical blank. I don't know yet how to solve this (writing a new video renderer would be a solution but this is not an option !)"

Is there trully no solution to this even as of now? (that Ogo quote is old, to say the least)
How come this problem doesn't seem to bother anyone?

Thanks for reading. I hope SlySoft will put the ReClock code to good use. EVR is sadly not the miracle every htpc owner has been waiting for :/
Later,

TSR

sanderh

22nd March 2008, 11:00

does any of the reclock professionals here know if the Sound Pre-Buffer size value in the config of ReClock could have any (negative) affect on lip-sync?

I have the feeling that if I lower this value to eg. 100ms instead of the 500ms standard, the lip-sync is better/more accurate.

What values are you guys using? 500ms 20% and 5%?

theshadowrunner

22nd March 2008, 14:14

shit sanderh, for a sec I thought James from Slysoft answered my 2 weeks old message :p
I was happy :p
As for you question i have 200ms, 20% and 5% and pretty sure it doesn't influence lipsynch at all. With a lower value, you can just seek faster in the file but it can break sound output in certain cases. (if I set to 100ms, certain files won't have audio anymore.. at all. putting back to 200 fixes it)

Cyberguyen

25th March 2008, 18:24

Hope Slysoft are working on the new ReClock else I would like the sourcecode to get a new author that would do something usefull with it...

Please release a version of ReClock slysoft - we all need it real bad!!! :bang:

sanderh

26th March 2008, 04:35

like I mentioned before, I think Slysoft is not working on a new version since it has been more than 6 months since we heard some official rumors from Slysoft. I m trying to get in contact with Ogo at this moment to see if we can the Reclock sourcecode. This way maybe some guys here (like midiboy etc) can make a new version of ReClock themselves.

James

26th March 2008, 08:03

I would like the sourcecode to get a new author that would do something usefull with it...

How much do you pay?

James

26th March 2008, 08:04

I m trying to get in contact with Ogo at this moment to see if we can the Reclock sourcecode.

You can't. We've bought it.

sanderh

26th March 2008, 09:52

so WILL there be a BETA version of the renewed ReClock soon? :bowdown:

Cyberguyen

26th March 2008, 13:26

How much do you pay?

I will pay for a working version of DVD reclock!!! :agree:

I will even pay in advance for a working version, so just hire a programmer and get working on it. There is no excuse! :agree:

I guess Slysoft have bought the sourcecode but I don't see a problem for someone else to re invent Reclock. No one have a patent on the concept. :policeman:

Maybe someone should contact Nvidia or Ati, they could have an interrest in something like this to get the edge in the MCE arena. :agree:

theshadowrunner

26th March 2008, 16:52

You can't. We've bought it.

Ok, and what are you doing with it?

seeya

27th March 2008, 03:27

@James, would it be possible/reasonable to just release a standalone audio renderer using kernel streaming without all the other things ReClock is doing? The reason why I'm asking is that currently I don't know any way to get around the XP Microsoft kernel mixer (which as you probably know manipulates the audio data before it is sent to the audio card). ReClock contains a nice kernel streaming audio renderer which bypasses the kernel mixer. Unfortunately it doesn't work for me cause ReClock refuses to work at all when I switch MPC to exclusive fullscreen mode. This failure to work is caused by ReClock failing to get access to the graphics card. If there was a simple kernel streaming audio renderer available, this problem wouldn't exist.

theshadowrunner

27th March 2008, 03:50

seeya, try to change the Hardware Access Method (in Reclock's configuration "video settings") from D3D to DirectDraw...

deathlord

27th March 2008, 12:19

currently I don't know any way to get around the XP Microsoft kernel mixer
You can use wave out instead of direct sound!

linus2003

27th March 2008, 20:41

I've been reading the posts regarding audio sync issues and have been noticing some audio issues of my own. I wasn't sure I was experiencing sync problems until I was watching one of my backups last night. I'm legally blind so most problems with audo blow right by me. This was too obbious to miss. I decided to pop the original, (I was watcfhing the backup), into my computer and see if the problem existed there. Much to my surprise the audio was off there as well. This started me thinking. I checked the audio configuration of PDVD and found the option was set to 'surround sound'. I don't have surround soud. I switched the option to 'stereo' and the problem vanished. This info probably hasn't a thing to do with what's causing issues for other users, but I felt it worth a mention.

sanderh

28th March 2008, 03:21

James, can you maybe give us a expected release date for a beta version? We re waiting for so long now.......

James

28th March 2008, 07:50

James, can you maybe give us a expected release date for a beta version? We re waiting for so long now.......
No, sorry. I don't give any forward looking statements. Been burned before.

seeya

28th March 2008, 08:46

seeya, try to change the Hardware Access Method (in Reclock's configuration "video settings") from D3D to DirectDraw...
Thanks, with that setting ReClock starts fine. But it doesn't detect the display frame rate correctly. So it's no solution for me.

You can use wave out instead of direct sound!
waveout also goes through the kernel mixer. See here:

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100492

"In win2k/xp (WDM), waveOut and DirectSound are just 2 different pathes of passing PCM data to windows kernel mixer."

ashlar

28th March 2008, 09:24

No, sorry. I don't give any forward looking statements. Been burned before.A sound policy. Could you at least share some of the features you are looking at implementing? Is it going to be a different product or it'll end up as part of AnyDVD(HD)?

Oh, and albeit off topic, congrats on defeating BD+. I am happy to have contributed by buying your product. :D

deathlord

30th March 2008, 11:31

waveout also goes through the kernel mixer
Yes, you are probably right. It is different with rme soundcards, that why I thought, wave out would be perfect.
I do get bit perfect output when playing music, reclock shows that. But unfortunately this appears to be rme-specific.

ashlar

31st March 2008, 04:21

One thing: using Zoom Player to play back-ups muxed into .mkv containers.

Is anybody able to get Reclock working with a Haali Video Renderer / Reclock Sound Renderer?

If I try to use it, Reclock complains about the .mkv not containing any video stream. If I load a file with VMR7 and reload it with Haali, Reclock finds the framerate in cache and adjusts the audio accordingly.

This happens when accessing hardware both through Direct3D and DirectDraw.

It's a shame because, for different reasons, I'm forced using VMR7 (as VMR9 doesn't allow for vsync adjustments and what it does by itself is still inferior, in my experience, to what Reclock manages).

JayDox

31st March 2008, 10:38

theshadowrunner

31st March 2008, 13:10

impossible ^

JayDox

31st March 2008, 14:21

impossible ^

Why impossible? It's working on my HTPC.
What do you think is not working?

ashlar

31st March 2008, 15:48

@ashlar
I'm using Zoomplayer + mkv + Haali Video Renderer + Reclock + VMR9 in Exclusive mode (to avoid tearing in WinXP) and it works like a charm. Never had a problem like you're describing.
What AVC/h.264 decoder are you using?
Have you tried to use the Video Mixing 9 renderer in Zoomplayer instead of Haali Video renderer?You either use Haali or you use VMR9 (Exclusive mode or not).

I do not want to use Exclusive mode as in Zoom Player this means forfeiting all menu controls.

My problem is Zoom Player + Haali + Reclock. H264 decoder is CoreAVC.

JayDox

31st March 2008, 16:36

You either use Haali or you use VMR9 (Exclusive mode or not).
Thats what I meant. What I wrote in the last post seems to be a little bit mistakable. Sorry for that.
Have you already tried using the Haali Mediasplitter provided by CoreAVC1.6.x?

ashlar

11th April 2008, 09:05

Have you already tried using the Haali Mediasplitter provided by CoreAVC1.6.x?I have tried the most up to date of Haali.

I renew my questions to the staff:
"Could you at least share some of the features you are looking at implementing? Is it going to be a different product or it'll end up as part of AnyDVD(HD)?"

ashlar

18th April 2008, 03:52

I renew my questions to the staff:
"Could you at least share some of the features you are looking at implementing? Is it going to be a different product or it'll end up as part of AnyDVD(HD)?"The silence is defeaning. If you are not working on a player, what good is the Reclock technology gonna do for us? :(

sanderh

18th April 2008, 10:56

Like I mentioned before, I have a feeling that a renewed ReClock will never really happen....... You guys see how long we are waiting now...... :confused:

Momber

20th April 2008, 09:33

Geez guys - what's with the hostile tone?
Chill out! And be patient.
It's not like ReClock and playback software weren't in existence already. Granted, not perfect, but better than staring at a blank screen.

sanderh

21st April 2008, 06:49

it s not a matter of a hostile tone. All I m asking is a release date for AnyReClock :rock:

Take a look at post #54. It s been been more than 6 months since the news came out that SlySoft bought the sourcecode from Ogo.

untill today there has not been any concrete info about a release........

Webslinger

21st April 2008, 10:39

untill today there has not been any concrete info about a release........

That's right, and there won't be. click http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=99562&postcount=180

If this thread becomes unpleasant, I will lock it. :policeman:

sanderh

22nd April 2008, 02:17

I m not beeing unplesant, I m just asking a question, thats all.

ashlar

22nd April 2008, 09:45

That's right, and there won't be. click http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=99562&postcount=180

If this thread becomes unpleasant, I will lock it. :policeman:Hi Webslinger, I'd like to stress how I specifically never asked for a release date and just asked what direction has development taken on this. Re-read my messages. I fully support the "we don't give release dates" policy.

Cheers! :D

theshadowrunner

10th May 2008, 06:04

' sup Sly's ReClock :/

James

10th May 2008, 21:03

If you are not working on a player, what good is the Reclock technology gonna do for us? :(

Who says that we aren't? ;)

theshadowrunner

10th May 2008, 21:29

ahh hints like that are good, keep them coming :D
Although i truly hope an updated directshow filter will be available too, (with support for EVR, would be a must).

ashlar

12th May 2008, 18:55

Who says that we aren't? ;)You devil! :rock: :clap:

alex.ba@gmx.de

26th May 2008, 06:08

Hi @all,

thank you very much for this. Looking forward to a first release. At the moment there's no way for vista because of the missing Reclock function. This could solve is. Great and thank you for this.

Do you need any testers for this software?

If yes I would be very interested in helping with this.

Regards,

Alex

Momber

27th May 2008, 08:30

At the moment there's no way for vista because of the missing Reclock function.
Exactly. It puzzles me no end to see so many people use Vista on their HTPC when it really is completely and utterly useless due to the lack of ReClock or a comparable feature.
Or is everybody happy with playing their BluRays at 60 Hz, where micro-jerkyness and resynch-stutter are not readily visible?

I just don't get it....

I, too, patiently continue to hold my breath for a relaunched ReClock software by Slysoft and would like to repeat my offer to beta-test it.

S.

radosch

27th May 2008, 09:20

Exactly. It puzzles me no end to see so many people use Vista on their HTPC when it really is completely and utterly useless due to the lack of ReClock or a comparable feature.
Or is everybody happy with playing their BluRays at 60 Hz, where micro-jerkyness and resynch-stutter are not readily visible?

I just don't get it....

I, too, patiently continue to hold my breath for a relaunched ReClock software by Slysoft and would like to repeat my offer to beta-test it.

S.

Well, it's not that ReClock doesn't work in Vista at all.
I run my HTPC on Vista32 and ReClock works fine for me.
Granted, there are a few issues, e.g:

Doesn't work with EVR renderer :bang:
Shows an error when you press OK in its configuration - may look scary but can be easily ignored...

So as long as you choose VMR9 as you renderer, ReClock should work just fine on Vista.

Since I'd love to use EVR I am looking forward to the SlySoft ReClock as well. Can't wait to see it out!

theshadowrunner

27th May 2008, 09:32

Yeah most people play EVERYTHING at 60hz.
Scarry but when you don't know better...

Anyway, i have fears that Slysoft is not working on an upgrade to ReClock as a directshow filter but they are working on a new software player integrating Reclock features, which would be absolutely horrible for all of us with already a favorite software player (Zoom Player here)

In fact, what do we really miss in Ogo's last 1.7beta4...
-support for EVR and Haali's renderer.
-capacity to detect framerate from MKV files with h264 streams
-maybe better shortcuts for showing/hiding the Tearing test.
-feature for Reclock to be friendly with 120fps vbr WMV files.

I made an extensive post about what ReClock's currently missing as of 1.7 beta 4:
http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=94790&postcount=165

I know that whatever happens I will NOT change my fav Zoom Player for a Slysoft player so I really hope Slysoft figured out people are not in for a new player but are expecting an updated DIRECTSHOW filter.

Later,

TSR

Charlie

27th May 2008, 10:00

integrating ReClock would be nice but those that use the media center part on the PC would have a less powerful product if there wasn't a standalone version.

peterbus

27th May 2008, 14:20

Who says that we aren't? ;)
ah no,here we go again,every hopeful son of a b****(like myself) will be crying into the forums about how james promised a player and it will go on and on and on until of course you give us what we want,he he.:bowdown:

DigiMagic

27th May 2008, 15:07

theshadowrunner

27th May 2008, 17:19

Indeed, for the best experience, you should use:
50hz on PAL source (25fps)
60hz on NTSC sources (29.97fps)
24/48/72Hz on Cinema sources (bluray, xvid and everything at 23.98fps)
ReClock makes the process automatic (applies correct frequency depending on media)which is why it is so much needed on HTPCs.

Again, I hope Slysoft is NOT working on a software player, that would be useless.
What we need is an updated Directshow filter.
Later,

TSR

James

27th May 2008, 18:56

Indeed, for the best experience, you should use:
50hz on PAL source (25fps)

Or 24/48/72 on PAL source (25fps -> 24fps PAL speedup compensation)

theshadowrunner

27th May 2008, 19:22

James, please enlighten us, just what kind of project are you working on, if any? ^^
No release date needed!

James

27th May 2008, 19:49

James, please enlighten us, just what kind of project are you working on, if any? ^^
No release date needed!
Sorry, I don't give any forward looking statements. Spoils the surprise. ;)

Momber

28th May 2008, 06:33

I run my HTPC on Vista32 and ReClock works fine for me.
Interesting. I've heard differing reports about this.
Guess I'll have to try for myself.... seeing as I really don't like Vista to begin with, I need some convincing / incentive though...
Given that PowerDVD doesn't actually use EVR, the lacking support of EVR by ReClock is no biggie for me personally. Until that changes (read: until someone at Cyberlink learns that there is a new video renderer in Vista which may offer an advantage or two. LOL.)

S.

Momber

28th May 2008, 06:44

i have fears that Slysoft is not working on an upgrade to ReClock as a directshow filter but they are working on a new software player integrating Reclock features, which would be absolutely horrible for all of us with already a favorite software player (Zoom Player here)

My favourite software player is always the one that does exactly what I want, with the least amount of fuzz, and delivers the best possible quality of picture and sound. So if Slysoft were to give us such a player, I'd be just too happy. I wouldn't hesitate to fork out some hard-earned cash for it.

I currently juggle between three players, which is something of a hazzle in itself. PowerDVD for BluRay and HD DVD (mainly because there are no DirectShow audio decoders outside of PDVD that cover all the next-gen formats found on BRD/HD DVD), Zoom Player for almost everything else and MPC for synching work and when I need to cap some screenshots.

In fact, what do we really miss in Ogo's last 1.7beta4...
-support for EVR and Haali's renderer.
-capacity to detect framerate from MKV files with h264 streams
-maybe better shortcuts for showing/hiding the Tearing test.

I agree with you on those points. From my personal perspective, I would like to add automatic frame rate detection for all types of video streams, including but not limited to NextGen media played back in PDVD, and particularly VSync correction with active DXVA (and with all renderers).

S.

erikt

28th May 2008, 08:57

Indeed, for the best experience, you should use:
50hz on PAL source (25fps)
60hz on NTSC sources (29.97fps)
24/48/72Hz on Cinema sources (bluray, xvid and everything at 23.98fps)
ReClock makes the process automatic (applies correct frequency depending on media)which is why it is so much needed on HTPCs.
Presumably, this is only applicable if you have a monitor that is capable of accepting all of these frequencies. A lot of (most?) consumer HDTVs only accept 60Hz. Am I missing something here?

ET

Wildrat

28th May 2008, 09:04

The ReClock problem is that when I'm watching TV and the video and audio don't exactly sync up?

Momber

28th May 2008, 10:24

Am I missing something here?
What you are "missing" is smooth, cinema-like pans and motion. Of course if your TV only accepts 60 Hz then there is nothing you can do about it, other than dump the thing for one that does accept integer multiples of 23.976 Hz as refresh rate.

S.

Wildrat

28th May 2008, 11:07

No problem with TV. I guess it was just crappy low budget movies. I understand your explanation.

Momber

28th May 2008, 16:22

I just spent considerable time installing and testing ReClock under Vista Ult. SP1.

So as long as you choose VMR9 as you renderer, ReClock should work just fine on Vista.
Except that it doesn't work with PowerDVD, nor with [that unbelievable bugfest called] Arcsoft Total tra-la-la and that EVR is the only renderer with which I can get DXVA for 1080p H.264/VC-1 to work in MPC HT (and as you rightly say, ReClock don't do EVR).
So what exactly do you mean with "works just fine under Vista"?

S.

James

28th May 2008, 16:43

So as long as you choose VMR9 as you renderer, ReClock should work just fine on Vista.

Nope. Only if you use a legacy (XP) sound driver. It won't work with the new sound driver model.

Mark_A_W

28th May 2008, 19:25

I just spent considerable time installing and testing ReClock under Vista Ult. SP1.

Except that it doesn't work with PowerDVD, nor with [that unbelievable bugfest called] Arcsoft Total tra-la-la and that EVR is the only renderer with which I can get DXVA for 1080p H.264/VC-1 to work in MPC HT (and as you rightly say, ReClock don't do EVR).
So what exactly do you mean with "works just fine under Vista"?

S.

Reclock doesn't really work properly with DXVA enabled. It can't perform it's Vsync properly.

May I ask why you need DXVA? Basically any dual core processor will do it in software. I have an old Opteron 165 and it does full software decoding easily.

Mark

theshadowrunner

28th May 2008, 19:45

Mark_A_W

28th May 2008, 20:01

hmm sorry no, ReClock works just fine with dxva, either when accelrating mpeg2 or h264.
The system clock correction is done and media adaptation in effect.
You just cannot use the "tearing test", that's the only drawback with dxva.
About the VSync, it's advised to turn it OFF form VMR9, and probalby EVR has its own vsync timing system as well so in every case vsync correction shouldn't be in use for those renderers, dxva or not.
Later,

TSR

I've found that Vsync helps with VMR9. I've played with this a lot - right from the early days of reclock.

So losing the Vsync function with DXVA is not ideal, in my experience. Without Vsync reclock is only half working.

But stick with what works for you.

Mark

Momber

29th May 2008, 14:13

It can't perform it's Vsync properly.
That's true but VSync correction is only one of the many benefits of ReClock. The others work splendidly even with DXVA.

May I ask why you need DXVA? Basically any dual core processor will do it in software.

First off, I don't have a DualCore CPU. With the help of my Radeon 3650 (half the price of a current C2D CPU) and DXVA I can watch all BluRays/HD DVDs known to man totally smoothly on my P4 (3 GHz) machine.
Second, you wanny try watching BluRay/HD DVD videos that have extremely high bitrates (such as Casino Royale, Apocalypto etc.) with software-only decoding... LOL - be my guest ;)

Even with DXVA working, setting ReClock's resampling quality to "excellent" (with analogue multichannel output) will choke older C2D processors, let alone my ancient P4. One of the main reasons why I'm still using SPDIF output at this day in age...

S.

ashlar

30th May 2008, 05:19

Even with DXVA working, setting ReClock's resampling quality to "excellent" (with analogue multichannel output) will choke older C2D processors, let alone my ancient P4. One of the main reasons why I'm still using SPDIF output at this day in age...Only if you don't do resampling in hardware which, reading the documentation, is clearly suggested if you have a modern and compatible soundcard. Working great with my X-Fi and impacting minimally on the CPU usage front.

Mark_A_W

30th May 2008, 05:27

Only if you don't do resampling in hardware which, reading the documentation, is clearly suggested if you have a modern and compatible soundcard. Working great with my X-Fi and impacting minimally on the CPU usage front.

Yep, hardware resampling works fine on my Revo 5.1 too (obviously I have quality set at excellent).

And no HD-DVD (but only one BD so far) has caused my fairly ancient dual core processor any trouble at all, 100% in software.

Momber

30th May 2008, 06:41

if you have a modern and compatible soundcard.
That's a big "if" ;)

S.

Dekyon

30th May 2008, 09:16

Hi guys,
I can confirm that reclock works on vista sp1!

After reading on this pages I install my old copy of reclock and it works with TheaterTek using VRM9.
I confirm also the error closing the config page, but I cannot a way to show the colored icon on traybar during playback.
Anyone can confirm that?

ashlar

30th May 2008, 16:07

That's a big "if" ;)

S.Well... a compatible soundcard is really cheap I think. But if you have a working solution I totally understand why you don't want to change. What soundcard are you using?

Momber

31st May 2008, 08:32

What soundcard are you using?
Some crappy on-board chip. Don't even remember the name. That's my main reason for using SPDIF output for the time being, as opposed to those 17-cent onboard D/A converters :eek:

But a friend has the all-conquering, all-expensive Asus Xonar D2 7.1 and even that is incompatible with ReClock's hardware resampling (option is greyed out) he says.

And before you say it, no, I will never again purchase anything by Creative Labs, ever. Unless I learn how to write *proper* drivers myself first ;)

I'm thinking of buying the Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 HiFi in the not-too-distant future. Anyone has any experience with that?

S.

Momber

31st May 2008, 08:36

it works with TheaterTek using VRM9.
Can you play back BluRays with TT?

S.

Dekyon

1st June 2008, 02:21

No, actually I use TT only for DVDs

Momber

1st June 2008, 04:49

No, actually I use TT only for DVDs
DVDs? What's that? ;)

Comer

1st June 2008, 16:49

I have Windows Vista SP1, an M-Audio 7.1 revolution and a Nvidia 7900GS video card. Is it possible to get reclock working with this setup and if yes, how? I go into configure reclock and place a tick beside the three options:

Set reclock as preferred renderer
Set reclock to be loaded in place of default Directsound/Wave renderers
Force reclock to be loaded in PowerDVD

When I click OK, I get the following error message three times:

Cannot change "bypass audio renders" status. Please reinstall Reclock

BTW, I'm usiong Reclock version 1.7b4

Please if anyone has any suggestions :bowdown:

Thanks

Comer

1st June 2008, 19:47

I installed TheaterTek and it looks like reclock will work with that, but can it work with PowerDVD for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD?

Momber

2nd June 2008, 07:04

can it work with PowerDVD for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD?
Yes, I but only under XP. Works with some builds of v. 7.3 (others need a tweak supplied by James - search the forum!) and it works with v. 8.0.

S.

Comer

2nd June 2008, 07:21

Yes, I but only under XP. Works with some builds of v. 7.3 (others need a tweak supplied by James - search the forum!) and it works with v. 8.0.

S.

Thanks, looks like it's back to XP for me, at least until Slysoft release a new version of Reclock.

Momber

2nd June 2008, 07:45

Thanks, looks like it's back to XP for me, at least until Slysoft release a new version of Reclock.
Yup, that's the general consensus I believe. At least among people who want to watch BluRays in PowerDVD.
Which is OK I think - the fewer people use Vista, the better. Perhaps Microsoft will see the error of their ways then...

S.

James

2nd June 2008, 07:49

Yup, that's the general consensus I believe. At least among people who want to watch BluRays in PowerDVD.

S.
I have the feeling Reclock isn't necessary anymore with later PowerDVD builds, I don't see any stuttering when I tune my graphics card to (roughly) 23.98 Hz. (not using SPDIF, of course) Luck? Coincidence? Or did Cyberlink something?

Momber

2nd June 2008, 07:55

I don't see any stuttering when I tune my graphics card to (roughly) 23.98 Hz.
I'm not saying this isn't so but do you actually sit down and watch a complete movie from beginning to end, without hitting pause? Because if you do that, and your GPU timing happens to be really close, it can take an hour or more before any jerkyness sets in. And every time you hit pause/play obviously the A/V synching is reset so the "counter" starts anew...

Just a thought...

Unless Cyberlink have finally made the switch to EVR in Vista and allocate a really huge set of buffers... which I doubt...

S.

PrincipalityFusion

2nd June 2008, 10:38

Sorry for the newb reclock question, but I usually pass over the reclock posts because I don't use it. However, recently i've finally decided to get a sound card that allows me to put analog outs to my amplifier so i can hear what SamuriHL and others have been talking about as far as high definition sound from my Blu Rays.

While doing that, i guess i wanted to know what is the purpose of reclock and do i need it? Will it enhance my viewing/auditory experience?

Thanks for the info!

James

2nd June 2008, 10:49

lamaatje

16th June 2008, 12:17

I wish this ReClock problem was solved in hardware. If the pixel clock of the video card and the D/A converter clock of the sound card could be (optionaly) locked to the same common clock source the problem is solved for PC's. Just standardize it. :bang:
It is done for 35 euro DVD players so why not for 600 euro PC's. Manufacturers of integrated video chipsets could do it even without standardization.

LINUS

16th June 2008, 12:40

If you watch PAL DVDs, it is a must have utility (reverse PAL-Speedup).

Right on! Speaking of which... can you give us an update on your progress wrt your reclock version?

Tnx ;)

sanderh

16th July 2008, 03:03

and again a month goes by........

sanderh

16th July 2008, 03:03

like I said before, I think we will never see a renewed reclock version.

theshadowrunner

16th July 2008, 03:49

At least if anyone could confirm for certain it is being worked on...
James' hints are heart-warming but an official statement would be better :)

ashlar

16th July 2008, 04:11

What I kind of fail to understand is the level of secrecy, even more so when thinking that it concerns a product that has had serious doubts concerning the nature of his use of open source code.

theshadowrunner

16th July 2008, 14:00

secrecy raises interest, i guess.

TheVoxHumanus

21st July 2008, 23:10

I'd just like to express my interest for this (potential) product.

It is intensely irritating that Vista or other operating systems have not yet addressed this problem. More and more people are using their computers for far more than internet browsing and the occasional YouTube video.

I use my computer for all of my movie watching, DVD and Blu-Ray, and it would be perfect apart from this stupid "Micro-judder" problem because the refresh rate of the video card does not match the sampling rate of the audio.

It is not visible so much on 24fps material for me, but 30fps material is positively noticeable.

Anyways, here's hoping this project gets off the ground. I'm more than happy to pay for it.