Lots of errors in output? [Archive]

View Full Version : Lots of errors in output?

alanisrox69

24th March 2007, 23:45

roog

25th March 2007, 01:42

Using the latest AnyDVD HD, the output of a HD-DVD has lots and lots of errors.

I tried 6.1.3.1 and .2 ....

both have the same result.

The disc is minimally scratched...this happens on almost every HD-DVD that is backed up.

I am using a Xbox external drive. The backups are going to another USB hard drive.

The most recent movies that I have had this problem on are:
-Poseidon
-The Rundown
-The Mummy 1 and 2

the list goes on and on...

almost every backup has video/audio glitches.

Playing the discs back straightforward in Pdvd (AnyDVDHD turned off) no errors....

The errors seem to happen randomly...ie, if I rerip the disc, different errors.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Please post your system info. Here's mine.

Windows Vista 32 w/all subsequent updates.
AnyDVD HD 6.1.3.3
PowerDVD Ultra 7.3 (build 2605)
ATI Catalyst 7-2_vista32_dd_ccc_enu_42852

Intel D975XBX motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 processor
2 GB Corsair XMS2 (PC2 6400) memory
ATI X1950XTX 512MB video card
Western Digital Raptor X 150GB hard drive (SATA)
Western Digital 500 GB hard drive (SATA) x 2
Lite-On LH-2B1S Blu-ray Disc Triple Writer (SATA)
XBox 360 HD DVD drive (usb)

alanisrox69

25th March 2007, 02:05

Okay, here's mine...

Windows XP Sp2 w/ all updates.
AnyDVD HD 6.1.3.3
PowerDVD Ultra 7.3 Legitimate (not warez)
ATI Driver Version: 8.342.0.0

Ripping machine:
HP ZD8205US Laptop
P4 2.8ghz
2gb RAM
ATI X600 128mb video card
Toshiba 120gb 7200rpm HDD
XBox 360 HD DVD drive (usb)

Playback machine:
Sony Vaio AR270G BluRay Edition
Core2Duo T7600
1gb ram
Nvidia 7600GT 256mb video
80gb x 2 SATA 7200rpm HDDs

The errors happen on both machines during playback. the ripping machine does not play back HDDVD smoothly (not enough processing power), but you can still see the glitches clearly and hear the audio glitches as that plays smooth.

I didn't try ripping on the Sony yet, only because I don't want to taint the computer....it has a perfect working version of WinDVD BD installed (for the BD drive)...and I don't want to screw that up...not saying that AnyDVD will, but I'm just being cautious with my new $2800 hardware :X

Thanks...

roog

25th March 2007, 02:25

alanisrox69

25th March 2007, 02:49

Yeah, I can play them fine...

Also, a user on another forum has mentioned he ripped a BD movie with AnyDVD and there are errors in it (from an M2R log)...ripped the same movie/disc with BackupBluRay using a Key and M2R log is clean...

I guess I'll have to breakdown and test it on the Vaio if this isn't a widespread problem....anyone else?

roog

25th March 2007, 03:01

Let us know what happens if you do.

Webslinger

25th March 2007, 12:17

I am using a Xbox external drive. The backups are going to another USB hard drive.

Try ripping to a non-external harddrive, and see what happens.

Peer

26th March 2007, 06:06

Also, a user on another forum has mentioned he ripped a BD movie with AnyDVD and there are errors in it (from an M2R log)...ripped the same movie/disc with BackupBluRay using a Key and M2R log is clean...

We also checked that one. We got no errors whatsoever from the exact same tools - except for a few errors reported on dual-layer discs around layer break. But this issue has already been addressed by v6.1.3.3 (or even 6.1.3.2. I'm not sure).
So fow now, I'm pretty sure, there is no general problem with rips from AnyDVD HD.

alanisrox69

5th April 2007, 03:11

It seems 6.1.3.3 has no issues ripping HD-DVDs on the new Sony Vaio. The rips came out glitch free.

However, Blu-Ray is another issue.

I ripped "Crank" using your software and it had so many glitches, it made it unwatchable. I deleted it. Re-ripped it, and the same exact glitches were there.

Closed AnyDVD. I then used BackupBluRay to back up the m2ts files. Reopened AnyDVD to copy over the Menu files. Played it, and it was glitch-free.

So there is definately a problem with ripping Blu-Ray. I would say there is a problem ripping HD-DVD as well, as it seems you need the "right" hardware to get a glitch-free rip. What the "right" hardware is, I am not sure, various other people have reported glitchy rips with AnyDVD. It could be my dinosaur HP laptop, as the new Sony rips HD-DVD perfect, but this shouldn't be the case, you are simply copying data bit-for-bit (or what should be bit-for-bit).

Perhaps you can include a bit-for-bit system in an upcoming version or something?

There obviously is a problem.

However, thanks to your software, I can backup Blu-Rays with BackupBluRay and use your software for the Menus!

-Derek-

alanisrox69

10th April 2007, 22:45

No comments on this?

-Derek-

roog

11th April 2007, 02:42

No comments on this?

-Derek-

I believe you! It sounds like a tough one.

Have you tried to rip any other Blu-ray movies on your Vaio?

After searching, it looks like your Vaio is a notebook. Is this correct? I've used a similar configuration on an HP notebook it has worked fine so far with both Blu-ray and HD DVD, but not with this particular movie.

If you haven't done so already, update your bios, OS, drivers, etc. and keep trying. Let us know what happens and we'll try to help.

Keep in mind that you may have to reinstall everything from scratch if things go awry.

Peer

11th April 2007, 12:20

I ripped "Crank" using your software and it had so many glitches, it made it unwatchable. I deleted it. Re-ripped it, and the same exact glitches were there.

I just ripped Crank (Region A) with AnyDVD and watched the first 15 minutes - nothing unusual, looks perfect to me.
How did you rip? Did you use AnyDVDs rip-option in the menu or did you copy through Explorer/xcopy/...? (both should work the same)
And in any case: does doing it the other way make a change?

There is no reason I can think of, why the ripping process should produce different results depending on the hardware. It's just about reading sectors one by one and decrypting them.

alanisrox69

13th April 2007, 00:23

I ripped Gone In 60 Seconds BD with AnyDVD and it while it only had a few glitches, STILL glitches (not nearly as many as Crank did).

Ripped using BackupBluRay and 100% glitch free.

Also, I always use Copy and Paste method via Explorer...

perhaps I need to use the button in AnyDVD?

Anyways, glitches happen on a lot of systems (not just mine) on HD-DVDs and forums all over and posts to usenet (of ripped movies) have glitches when they shouldn't.

Just my 2cents.

Peer

13th April 2007, 04:19

perhaps I need to use the button in AnyDVD?

Yep. That's what it's there for.

Some explanation here to what is crossing my mind right now:

decryption of Bluray requires that data is decrypted in the correct order (from left to right, so to say).

Backupbluray has a very simple job to do: open a file, read it from beginning to end and subsequently decrypt data.

AnyDVD works a lot on driver level and only "sees" one sector at a time.
The builtin ripper reads directly from the disc and ensures a correct sequence of read requests.

When you use Explorer, I can imagine, that some foolish intermediate drivers (even the windows cache) might think it is funny to first read sector 3, then 1, then 2. This would garble the result, because decryption of sector 3 depends on the result of the decryption of sector 2.
This is no typical effect, because I can rip with Explorer as well without a problem, but it's the best explanation I can find at the moment.
And I would also expect that all those having problem with these glitches have in common, that they are using explorer to rip.
BTW: it only has drawbacks to do so. If you rip using the explorer (or Backupbluray as well), your filecache will flood your memory and swap out pretty much all processes, which you will already have noticed - after the rip is done, you will have this well-known feeling that windows seems to be running directly from HDD for a while :( .
The AnyDVD ripper bypasses the windows file cache (as it makes no sense in this case anyway).

So this is no issue for the AnyDVD ripper, nor for a Bluray player software like PowerDVD, because the latter also enforces a correct read sequence: they both don't use the filesystem, they access the drive directly.

So, yes, please try a rip with the AnyDVD ripper and let me know the result.

SuperGoof

13th April 2007, 05:16

... I can rip with Explorer as well without a problem...
Hi Peer,

I have some questions and some suggestions:

1) What software do you have installed so you can see files on blu-ray disc in Explorer? Or maybe you use Vista, which has built-in UDF 2.5 drivers?

2) Can problems described in this thread be related to my observations when I doing binary file comparisons here (http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=3235)?

3) Can you please test these issues on XP with Roxio EMC 9 installed?

4) My opinion is that AnyDVD should somehow handle possible IO issues you described here (if they exist at all, of course).

5) If it cannot handle them for some fundamental reasons, and the only way to get an 'ideal' rip is to use AnyDVD ripper, can you please change it so it sets original datetimes on the ripped files?

Thanks.

SuperGoof

13th April 2007, 05:43

WOW! You just released AnyDVD 6.1.3.5!

- New: Workaround for compatibility problems with 3rd party drivers

It it related to what we are discussing in this thread?

guile

13th April 2007, 07:55

I also had some issues (in the past) and feel they were in fact due to copying with explorer. Although I still get occasional glitches with Blu Ray, I think it is attributed to the player. I would rewind and play back and the glitch would disappear. I haven't run mpegrepair for problem logs though. Probably because it's been so minimal and I don't feel the need to waste so much time. Try the latest release (6.1.3.5) as well.

History
6.1.3.5 2007 04 10
- New (Blu-ray): Improved removal of region code
- New: Workaround for compatibility problems with 3rd party drivers
- Some minor fixes and improvements
- Updated languages

The underlined might help you. Nice to see ya hear brother:)

g

bachuka

14th April 2007, 07:44

i dont think you laptop cpu or graphics card can handle hd playback, if you have a stronger desktop system, try it there....check out this article for more info. I'd recommend a system at least at e6600 core 2 duo with at least a 7950gt

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2886

SuperGoof

14th April 2007, 09:32

Peer,

I'm sorry to tell you this but now I'm 100% sure that some IO problems DO exist after all.

This time I was comparing .m2ts files produced by AnyDVD HD ripper with those copied to the hard drive directly using Windows Explorer. And they are DIFFERENT on my machine. Not completely different thought, but they contain different regions, notably the region between 0x20000 and 0x21000, but not limited to this one.

On the other hand, files created by AnyDVD HD ripper are identical to those created by BackupBluRay, except that BackupBluRay's files usually have several kilobytes of extra data (presumably garbage) at the end.

This apply to all BDs I tested, including popular titles like "5th Element" and "Casino Royale". I was using the latest version of AnyDVD HD (6.1.3.6).

Referring to your above explanations of possible reasons for this (about non-sequential access to disc sectors), I have two additional questions to you:

1) Does this possible source of the problem only apply to BDs or to normal DVDs as well? Should I prefer using DVD ripper when copying DVDs to hard drive instead of copying them directly in Windows Explorer?

2) If at the time AnyDVD HD ripper is working some other program accesses the disc (for example, I open Explorer and browse the disc, or even start playing the disc or some files on it), can this also influence the output of AnyDVD HD ripper? Is it 100% reliable and will always produce the same files no matter what I do with the disc?

Thanks.

Peer

14th April 2007, 10:58

I'm sorry to tell you this but now I'm 100% sure that some IO problems DO exist after all.

Let's keep it simple: use AnyDVD ripper and everything is fine.
About your concern with any other app accessing the drive while ripping: won't happen, ripper locks the drive for just that reason.

SuperGoof

15th April 2007, 03:54

About your concern with any other app accessing the drive while ripping: won't happen, ripper locks the drive for just that reason.

Sorry, but it doesn't... I was able to start ripping while playing the disc with PowerDVD, then I was starting and stopping playback or was suspending and resuming ripping several times. The result was terrible - files were different to what was created for the first time when there was no (evident) interference.

I had to test it myselt before asking questions...

Meanwhile I had a look at BackupBluRay code and found a line of code where it has a bug which causes those several kilobytes of extra data at the end of decryped files. When I fixed it (by replacing "2048" with "6144") and recompiled the code, BackupBluRay started to produce files which are absolutely the same as those created by AnyDVD HD (when it is in good mood :)).

Also I found from the code that data in .m2ts files is encrypted in 6KB (6144 bytes) blocks. 6KB are 3 sectors. This means that if AnyDVD works on sector level, as you said, then to successfully decrypt a sector you have to know the content of two other sectors. Then why AnyDVD cannot work something like this:

1) It recieves a request for the content of a particular sector, and it should return a (decrypted) data for that sector.
2) It checks the cache (AnyDVD's own cache) for the decrypted data for this sector. It it finds a record for the requested sector in cache, it returns it, and that is it.
3) It not, it finds which file this sector belongs to and calculates the position of this sector in the file. This is required to figure out which 6KB block the sector belongs to.
4) It finds where are two other sectors which belong to the same encryped block and reads them.
5) It decrypts 6KB block and puts decrypted data for all 3 sectors to the cache.
6) It returns only one third of the decrypted data which corresponds to the requested sector.
7) When in some time it receives a request for one of the other 2 sectors, it doesn't have to read them again from the disc, it can take it straight from the cache. (unless they were removed from the cache already)

This algorithm does not imply that sectors are accessed in sequential order and still will return correct data whatever happens in Windows on application level.

I'm just wondering is 6KB encryption block Blu-ray specific or HDDVD works same way. I rather incline to think that it is Blu-ray specific, because why would the author of BackupBluRay divide by 2048 instead of 6144 in the first place in that line of code which has a bug. It was plobably left from his initial HDDVD code.

Please don't take an offence or something. I'm just trying to help to make AnyDVD HD better and bug-free.

Also, I'm not a specialist in the area. These are just common sense thoughts.

James

15th April 2007, 07:54

Sorry, but it doesn't... I was able to start ripping while playing the disc with PowerDVD, ...

Well, don't start ripping while playing on PowerDVD. If the disc is already in use, the ripper cannot gain exclusive access.

James

15th April 2007, 07:57

I'm just wondering is 6KB encryption block Blu-ray specific or HDDVD works same way. I rather incline to think that it is Blu-ray specific, because why would the author of BackupBluRay divide by 2048 instead of 6144 in the first place in that line of code which has a bug. It was plobably left from his initial HDDVD code.

HDDVD doesn't have the 6144 bytes stupidity. (Did I mention that Blu-ray sucks?)

roog

15th April 2007, 08:12

HDDVD doesn't have the 6144 bytes stupidity. (Did I mention that Blu-ray sucks?)

James, would you please elaborate on why you think Blu-ray sucks?

SuperGoof

15th April 2007, 08:35

HDDVD doesn't have the 6144 bytes stupidity. (Did I mention that Blu-ray sucks?)

Yes, I checked BackupHDDVD code 5 min ago and as I thought (on a basic of the nature of bug in BackupBluRay), their data is encrypted in 2048 byte (1 sector) blocks.

There are two implications of this. One is good, and one is bad.

The good is that this whole issue is Blu-ray specific only, and I can continue copying my DVDs by using a mouse in Windows Explorer. I can also do the same with HDDVDs if I ever have them.

The bad is that for some reason you decided to take the line of least resistance when implementing Blu-ray support, basically a bit cheating :). I don't know whether it's because you do not like the format so much, or it is really difficult to do it properly from technical point of view. But it is now obvious that Blu-ray decryption algorithm used by AnyDVD HD is fundamentally flawed.

I just hope you will fix it in one of the next versions.

I do not think that the fact that Blu-ray uses 6KB blocks means that Blu-ray sucks. It is just different. 3 times bigger blocks mean there are 3 times less of them for the same amount of data. Maybe they wanted to save numbers for some reason. Or maybe 6KB blocks have some roots in Japan's digital TV standards, as the use of transport streams has.

Best Regards.

James

15th April 2007, 12:12

But it is now obvious that Blu-ray decryption algorithm used by AnyDVD HD is fundamentally flawed.

No, it works perfectly well for *watching* discs. It works perfectly well when using the AnyDVD ripper. Unless you do stupid things it works perfectly well with Explorer, too.

James

15th April 2007, 12:14

James, would you please elaborate on why you think Blu-ray sucks?

I believe I elaborated on this often enough in this forum.

roog

16th April 2007, 04:49

I believe I elaborated on this often enough in this forum.

I tried searching for your comments but because you've been so prolific it's hard to find the Blu-ray ones. I'd just like to know, in a nutshell, how you came to your opinion about Blu-ray.

SuperGoof

16th April 2007, 05:33

I tried searching for your comments but because you've been so prolific it's hard to find the Blu-ray ones. I'd just like to know, in a nutshell, how you came to your opinion about Blu-ray.

These are some of James' comments about Blu-ray:

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?p=1687#post1687

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?p=14414#post14414

roog

16th April 2007, 06:57

These are some of James' comments about Blu-ray:

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?p=1687#post1687

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?p=14414#post14414

Thanks for the help SuperGoof!

SuperGoof

18th April 2007, 06:39

Well, don't start ripping while playing on PowerDVD. If the disc is already in use, the ripper cannot gain exclusive access.

Sorry, Peer and James, that I did not believe you. AnyDVD HD ripper DOES lock the drive after all... But only in case no other program accesses it at that time. Wouldn't it make more sense though if it refused to do ripping at all if it could not lock the drive? Especially for Blu-ray discs.

Peer

18th April 2007, 09:34

Sorry, Peer and James, that I did not believe you. AnyDVD HD ripper DOES lock the drive after all... But only in case no other program accesses it at that time. Wouldn't it make more sense though if it refused to do ripping at all if it could not lock the drive? Especially for Blu-ray discs.

There are background tools out there that do access a drive permanently and keep the drive in an unlockable state, while still not being a threat to anydvds ripper at all. We simply can't demand a drive to be lockable, instead we do, if we can.
The present solution probably really is the best that can be achieved to make as many users happy as possible.

James

18th April 2007, 09:54

SuperGoof

19th April 2007, 08:47

The present solution probably really is the best that can be achieved to make as many users happy as possible.

OK, I understand. Thank you.

SuperGoof

19th April 2007, 08:48

I'll solve this in the long run, you will be pleased. :D

If you mean improving reliability of Blu-ray decrypting when multiple programs simultaneously access the disc - it would be great! Thank you!

Many thanks to you and Peer for your work on such a wonderful program AnyDVD!

SuperGoof

31st May 2007, 09:39

I'll solve this in the long run, you will be pleased. :D

I'm very pleased indeed now! 8)

The latest version of AnyDVD HD (6.1.5.8)) fixes this problem. I was waiting, and tesing every single new version of AnyDVD, and when today in the morning I read:

- Fix (HD DVD & Blu-ray): Multithreaded access to AACS decrypted files could
cause incorrect decryption

I realised that finally the wait was over, and it was indeed the case. I downloaded 6.1.5.8, installed, and tested it. And this time everything was perfect: files copied with Windows Explorer matched those created earlier with AnyDVD ripper, and even binary comparisons performed between files on disc and those on HDD (created by ripper) gave pefect match. Even when I was running several comparisons simultaneously!

Thank you, James and Peer! Thank you, SlySoft! :clap:

P.S.: From the discussion with James and his reaction when I mentioned 6144 bytes encryption blocks in Blu-ray, I concluded that this problem only applied to Blu-ray. Why is then HD DVD is also listed to which this fix is applied?

Peer

31st May 2007, 12:07

P.S.: From the discussion with James and his reaction when I mentioned 6144 bytes encryption blocks in Blu-ray, I concluded that this problem only applied to Blu-ray. Why is then HD DVD is also listed to which this fix is applied?

With HD-DVD it can happen too, though with much less probability.
Small jumps back and forth in an HD-DVD stream maintain the same decryption parameters, while Blu-Ray has a constant change (each of those blocks)...

James

31st May 2007, 22:11

With HD-DVD it can happen too, though with much less probability.
*Could*. :p
It can't happen anymore.

SuperGoof

20th August 2007, 10:22

Hi James and Peer,

Couple of days ago I found that this problem is still there.

When I do "binary comparison" between files created by AnyDVD ripper with those on disc (with AnyDVD enabled) using a program called "Beyond Compare" in Vista, it reports that some .m2ts files are different.

For example, for "300" blu-ray it reports differences in files 00009.m2ts and 00028.m2ts, for "POTC 1" - in 00008.m2ts and 00027.m2ts, "Finding Neverland" - 00004.m2ts and 00008.m2ts

It is all very weird though. If I compare those "different" files using "010 Editor" ("Beyond Compare" cannot show actual differences in files larger than 1GB or so), it depends on parameters I choose whether it will find differences or not. If I use default parameters - it won't. If I set "Quick Match" and "Max Look-a-head" to small numbers, such as 16 - it will. But even in this case when I look at regions with differences - I could not find any. And if after such manipulations I do "binary comparison" in "Beyond Compare" again - differences suddenly disappear.

It looks like this only happens in Vista - in XP "Beyond Compare" did not find differences in those (and other) files.

So it seems AnyDVD's 'on the fly' decrypting is still less reliable than AnyDVD ripper.

I was initially using AnyDVD 6.1.6.5 when doing those comparisons, updated to 6.1.7.0 - same result. No Drag-To-Disc or similar software on that machine.

Can you please have another look at this matter.

Thanks.

SuperGoof

21st August 2007, 08:38

Interestingly, I could not reproduce this on my old laptop. Everything works as expected both in XP and Vista. "Beyond compare" does not report any differences in files at all.

I will do more experiments to try to figure out what exactly causes the problem. Will check those filters, antivirus software etc.

SuperGoof

22nd August 2007, 06:17

I found what caused the above problem. It's antivirus program after all. Norton Internet Security 2007. When I disable Auto-protect, "Beyond Compare" doesn't find any mismatches in files on hard drive and on disc when I do binary comparison, even if I start playing some of the files on disc at the same time.

On my old laptop, I do not have any antivirus in Vista, that's why I did not experience this before. I do have Norton Antvirus 2007 in XP though, and it does not cause any problems.

I think it is still worth if you investigate this issue further. Norton Antivirus / Internet Security are very popular software, and having Auto-protect enabled should not cause errors in AnyDVD's 'on the fly' decryption, IMHO.

Thanks.