Cinavia Becoming More Prevalent

[Vic]

Cinavia Becoming More Prevalent

I just tried 3 brand new3d blu-ray players and they all have cinavia protection.

1. Panasonic
2. LG
3. Samsung

What's happening???

Slysoft, please bring an end to this maddness!!!


vic

[FurryGuy]

Which points out why I am seriously considering creating a Home Theater PC for DVD/Bluray playback instead of getting a new stand-alone player. With an HTPC I potentially could rip and playback all on the same setup. And no firmware updates with cinavia licensing to muck things up.

The magicians at Slysoft know all about cinavia and are working on a solution, as has repeatedly be stated in other threads about cinavia. It isn't something easy to fix, but neither was BD+ until the Slysoft gurus cracked it.

[rik1138]

Every Blu-ray player manufactured since Feb of this year is _required_ to support Cinavia. So, pretty much any new player you buy will have it.

I'm not sure how software players are regulated, but I suspect the big commercial ones (PowerDVD, Total Media Theater) will be including it soon...

Some older players will start supporting it with firmware updates. You _have_ to update your firmware in your player at least every 18 months or it will stop playing newly made discs, so you can't even decide not to update the firmware (if you own/rent/borrow replicated discs, anyway). Your only viable option right now is to own two Blu-ray players, one that doesn't have Cinavia in it and you never update, and just use for BD-R playback, and another one for playing retail discs that you can update.

There's no practical way to defeat Cinavia. Even if you could remove it from the disc, you'd have to decode the audio to WAV files, remove the Cinavia waveform, and then re-encode it back to DTS-HD MA or Dolby TruHD, and that means providing a lossless encoder to every user somehow (the only legal way would be selling it, and they cost at least $1500). You could leave it 5.1 PCM, but in some cases that will no longer fit on a BD-R (or if you don't care about lossless, just make it AC3 or DTS). The only really viable way to defeat it is to hack the player to ignore it. I think AnyDVD's proposed solution is a software player that will never have Cinavia in it. While that's nice, that's not actually 'defeating' it, just getting around it in a specific situation (software playback on a computer).

[MrBiG]

99% of Blu-ray discs DO NOT have Cinavia. That's why no one is really making it a priority to defeat Cinavia. Until that changes I doubt anyone will.

[Topdog50]

Which is why I bought myself a preCinavia Panasonic before Xmas and put it away for a rainy day...

[trussme]

You can Google:
"DMP-BD85 Panasonic"... and there are still vendors like eBay & Amazon that have this non-Cinavia model for sale. Just don't download Firmware Updates dated after February 2012.

[Ch3vr0n]

@trussme: you're wrong on that part. Its not solely the firmware that counts. It's the license / production date of the PLAYER itself that's most important. You can update the BD85 just fine with FW dating after Feb 1st, that's cause the player predates the mandatory cinavia detection.

[RBBrittain]

@trussme: you're wrong on that part. Its not solely the firmware that counts. It's the license / production date of the PLAYER itself that's most important. You can update the BD85 just fine with FW dating after Feb 1st, that's cause the player predates the mandatory cinavia detection.It's possible that some pre-February 1 players have Cinavia hardware inside; they *could* have Cinavia activated via firmware updates, but for most players that's unlikely. OTOH, I suspect "license" is more important than "production"; if the BDA licensed the particular model for manufacture before 2/1, players of that model made after 2/1 might not have it either (though it could be added as a running hardware change).

Still, other workarounds remain available, and will be even once Cinavia is added to licensed PC software players (PDVD, TMT, etc.); that, as much as the relative lack of Cinavia discs, is why Cinavia removal isn't a high priority. (As recently confirmed in your own Slyce thread--and contrary to an earlier post in this thread--*true* Cinavia removal, though NOT in the initial release of Slyce, WILL eventually be a Slyce feature.)

[RBBrittain]

you'd have to decode the audio to WAV files, remove the Cinavia waveform, and then re-encode it back to DTS-HD MA or Dolby TruHD, and that means providing a lossless encoder to every user somehow (the only legal way would be selling it, and they cost at least $1500). You could leave it 5.1 PCM, but in some cases that will no longer fit on a BD-R (or if you don't care about lossless, just make it AC3 or DTS).Just to clarify, this is *exactly* what Slyce is eventually supposed to do--decode the audio, remove the Cinavia watermark, and potentially re-encode the audio. (I believe you were thinking of SlyPlayer.) AFAIK there's no freely-available lossless encoders just yet, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. ;)

[fast eddie]

Some thoughts on the Cinavia cure.

1. Slysoft is in one of the best locations for defeating Cinavia, they can side step the laws that other corporations are subject to due to their physical location.

2. MOST Blu-ray DVD fans take the easy way of playing Blu-ray disks. Just add the hardware Blu-ray player with HDMI cable to their HDTV, so all they want is just a Cinavia cure and fast.

3. History says the one who comes up with the Cinavia cancer cure FIRST is most likely to get the BIGGEST return on their investment.

And who knows the corporation or audio expert who comes up with the Cinavia cancer cure first may be bought out by Verance and/or Sony corporation.:D
Sony and/or Verance may ask the corporation or audio expert "How much money would it take to keep you happy the rest of your life and keep the Cinavia cure off of the market place?"

[SamuriHL]

Right... Verance is way more likely to pay you off rather than throw you in jail or sue you into oblivion. The copyright laws are on their side.

There are a few things you should know about cinavia. First off there isn't just one signal. There are many of them. They each have different meaning to the player. The common idea is that since there are only 3 or 4 message types that there are only 3 or 4 signals to worry about. Cinavia is far more complex than that. The algorithm is able to detect all of them. This also gives them some protection against people trying to analyze the signal on one disc and looking for the same pattern on another. The second and most important thing you should know is that they planned for it to be hacked. Similar to bd+, cinavia can adapt and evolve. So you figure out how to remove it... Hurray. Then you simply kick off the arms race/cat and mouse game of removal and evolution.

Any company that touts themselves as "defeating" Cinavia has to be prepared to constantly evolve the detection and removal process. Especially if you're selling a product. It helps to know and research all you can about the protection before half assing a "solution" onto an unsuspecting market who thinks it's truly defeated. We have an example of a company already who thought they had a clever "solution" to the problem. Those that bought into it now have useless expensive discs lying around. It would be best to take their time on this and do the proper analysis. All the while letting more and more discs get released with the so-called "easy" version of Cinavia. ;)

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

[James]

2. MOST Blu-ray DVD fans take the easy way of playing Blu-ray disks. Just add the hardware Blu-ray player with HDMI cable to their HDTV, so all they want is just a Cinavia cure and fast.

The easiest solution for the "Cinavia problem" is to use a player which *cannot* play retail Blu-ray discs. There are some media players which even support full blown Blu-ray menus, like the Netgear NTV550 (not tested myself).
No retail Blu-ray playback = no AACS license required = no Cinavia.
If you can live without full menus, there are many very good and very cheap media players available.

IMHO recording to Blu-ray media is extremely painful anyway. Expensive, slow, unreliable.

A harddisk as a backup media is cheap & fast.

[Adbear]

Actually if you are writing back to SL BD-R then it's cheaper than harddrives, with the added bonus of not losing the whole drive if there's a disc failure

[James]

Actually if you are writing back to SL BD-R then it's cheaper than harddrives,
Maybe, but not much. And you *can* use DL sizes if you want. And they are so easy to use. AnyDVD -> Rip to image directly to the target drive -> done.
Plug the disk to your player -> watch.
with the added bonus of not losing the whole drive if there's a disc failure
True, but IMHO recorded optical discs are more unreliable, if stored over a longer period.

[SamuriHL]

Or convert the main movie to MKV which will reduce its size and make it more compatible with more players. ;)

[James]

Or convert the main movie to MKV which will reduce its size and make it more compatible with more players. ;)

Sure, if you don't care about the menus.

[SamuriHL]

Sure, if you don't care about the menus.

I don't. I have the original disc if I want the menus and all the extras. I just like having my most watched movies accessible in an easy to use library that's networked across the house. MKV makes that easy. ISO is easy for that, too, but, MKV is even easier with programs like MC17 that automagically categorize all your content in your library for you. What's a "Cinavia" again? ;)

[Adbear]

Maybe, but not much. And you *can* use DL sizes if you want. And they are so easy to use. AnyDVD -> Rip to image directly to the target drive -> done.
Plug the disk to your player -> watch.

True, but IMHO recorded optical discs are more unreliable, if stored over a longer period.Not really, for SL BD-r's it works out around half the price for 1TB of discs compared to 1TB of HD, and for DL discs it works out around the same price as a 1TB drive, as to storage time, you're constantly using the harddrive so it's more prone to failure than a disc stored properly that only gets used when needed. I have a 12TB raid 5 system for storing my images on as well as using BD-r's and even using enterprise drives I've already had to replace 2 of them which if they weren't in a RAID would have lost me all the images.
So far I have all my BD-R's that were burnt on to decent media from 5 years ago still all working, can't say the same for the harddrives from back then

[Will Yaknowme]

Sorry, been out of commission that last couple of years and recently started to get back into the swing of things.

James,

Confused you said use a player that cannot play retail Blu-ray discs? I don't get it can you explain? Something I missed? Checking the netgear product looks like people can copy a Bluray disc to their hard disk/network and use this product to play it on a HDTV? I guess they will use the Slysoft HD s/w?

Someone mentioned copy over to a SL BD-R's. How does this help?

Never used a BluRay player, but started thinking of buying one.

Damn, sounds like I've missed the boat on this technology (Netgear product).

Thanks,

WY



The easiest solution for the "Cinavia problem" is to use a player which *cannot* play retail Blu-ray discs. There are some media players which even support full blown Blu-ray menus, like the Netgear NTV550 (not tested myself).
No retail Blu-ray playback = no AACS license required = no Cinavia.
If you can live without full menus, there are many very good and very cheap media players available.

IMHO recording to Blu-ray media is extremely painful anyway. Expensive, slow, unreliable.

A harddisk as a backup media is cheap & fast.

[Ch3vr0n]

No, what we are saying is yo use a player that does not fall under the cinavia mandatory detection. Simply put, this means almost any player with predating Feb 1st, 2012

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[Will Yaknowme]

Thanks,

I'll catch up and will keep reading.

WY

[mike_r]

The easiest solution for the "Cinavia problem" is to use a player which *cannot* play retail Blu-ray discs. There are some media players which even support full blown Blu-ray menus, like the Netgear NTV550 (not tested myself).


I have the Netgear NeoTV 550, and I can confirm that this is the case. It even handles JAVA menus (eg German House on Haunted Hill, which has Sony ScreenProtect on it plays fine - thanks to AnyDVD)

[cardzetc]

With all of the talk on Cinavia, I have not seen any comment on the older 3D blu-ray players. About Cinavia having any capability to cause your player to automatically update it's firmware, to add Cinavia to your player causing playback issues with your new backups of a Cinavia protected disc. I have been able to backup some of the disc that say Cinavia protected and watch them on my older Samsung 3d player. I am however worried about Cinavia's advancements, does anyone know?

[fast eddie]

My circumvention for Cinavia, for both software and hardware playing until Cinavia can be defeated. But, I am bias towards hardware playing and creating back-up disks you can take to a friends house to watch a movie.
So for now, I create back-up disks that can be played in a hardware player or a software player.

1. Hardware playing
I have four hardware players without Cinavia and all are Sony. Will only do firmware update on ONE of them when the new source pressed BD-ROM will not play on them. All are over 18 months old and do not require a firmware update. Each new firmware update from Sony is stored on a seperate CD-R disk in case it is ever needed. (HDMI to HDTV)

2. Software playing
Use software players without Cinavia, VSO and XBMC work great for me, will play standard definition as well as Blu-ray, playback from the source pressed BD-ROM disk or back-up disk or play sometimes from the hard drive. (HDMI to HDTV)

So far, this procedure has worked well for me.:agree:

[gjokocovekot]

Hey guys, I understand that there has been cure for the Cinavia . Is that true?

[mike20021969]

Hey guys, I understand that there has been cure for the Cinavia . Is that true?
Who knows.. Why don't you click the link in your signature then let us know? :rolleyes:

[Ch3vr0n]

Hey guys, I understand that there has been cure for Cinavia . Is that true?

No there isn't. The folks over at dvd2hd claimed they had one that was supposed to be released on oct 31st. We're all still waiting. They've changed their "release date" for their "cinavia module" about half a dozen times now, but an actual release has yet to be seen. Currently there is NO way to remove it

[Frank]

Hey guys, I understand that there has been cure for Cinavia xxxxxxx . Is that true?

If you use that word again in connection with this I'll ban you for a while.

[Frank]

Hey guys, I understand that there has been cure for the Cinavia . Is that true?

I will not tolerate the use of that disease name to describe some playback blocking. I have a good reason for this and if you use it again I'll temporarily ban you.

[mike20021969]

@ Frank
Apologies for not editing my quote correctly.
I completely agree with you. (Personal reasons in my case).
that word

[Hibo2k]

Hi,
We use a large pc for projection and others for storage. Each has some generation of BD drive. I would like find software that could report the characteristics of each drive with respect to movie protection potential, firmware dates, etc.. Specifically, it would be good to know if the drive has the possibility to be updated such that it would be detrimental playback.

Thank you,
Hibo2k

[Adbear]

PC drives have no way of detecting Cinavia, the detection is in the software you use, so no firmware update on a PC drive will add Cinavia detection as it's not possible. Only commercial playback software has Cinavia detection (PowerDVD, Totalmedia Theatre and WinDVD)

[irish2u]

I don't know nothing and appreciate reading here the info. pertaining to this issue, But i also notice in a new player i got for Christmas in which i had burned CD's / dvds mp3 in -rw n +rw formats, also burning with nero as a data disk and the player scanned and stopped would NOT play them i was pissed.
Then i took out to garage and loaded them on an older Panasonic dvd player and worked just fine, hummm

The player i just got for xmas was a Panasonic dmp bd77 Blu-Ray, now will region free play them and free of Cinavia copy protection ???

Well Thanks everyone appreciate all feed, Enjoy