ReClock chitchat

[James]

Originally Posted by somy

Well, if ATI claims xvYCC works, then they must make some shortcut for PowerDVD. When I try to play my test blu-ray disk(0-255) in powerDVD, it now output 0-255 to my projector. Before 9.12, I can never make 4850 output 0-255 (I think it's because the dongle tells the driver to do RGB->YCC conversion), so I assume now it supports YCC output without letting renderer convert YCC ->RGB then dongle convert RGB->YCC.

No, it's because 9.6 - 9.11 were all broken.

[somy]

Originally Posted by James

No, it's because 9.6 - 9.11 were all broken.

Hi James, I know ATI messed up black-level with CCC 9.6 - 9.11, but it's not my point. We all know ATI's HDMI dongle outputs YUC 16-235 (it must do some RGB/YUC convert) all the time no matter what pixel format you choose in CCC, but with CCC 9.12 if I choose YCrCb 4:4:4 I do get 0-255 output from PowerDVD (yes, I have a test blu-ray to genertae 0-255 and I can monitor input lum from my projector), that's strange, isn't it? This only works if YCrCb is chosen, RGB 4:4:4 only output 16-235 correctly(which is what they messed with in CCC 9.6-9.11). This makes me to think weather PowerDVD can output YCrCb directly to my projector

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by somy

I use high quality YUC/RGB conversion in FFDShow so that I don't need MadVR for chroma, and guess what, I'm satisfied, much smoother than MadVR and not too bad picture quality. I believe introduction of Sync render in MPC-HC breaks MadVR though.

yep, but it's a CPU hog...mVR does it all through your GPU, together w/ CoreAVC CUDA it leaves a lot of headroom CPU-wise.

well, what happens if you feed RGB to your pj?

I don't use MPC-HC, can't comment...KMP 4ever <3

[somy]

Originally Posted by leeperry

yep, but it's a CPU hog...mVR does it all through your GPU, together w/ CoreAVC CUDA it leaves a lot of headroom CPU-wise.

well, what happens if you feed RGB to your pj?

I don't use MPC-HC, can't comment...KMP 4ever <3

ATI dongle will convert RGB to YUC, only get 16-235 output.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by somy

ATI dongle will convert RGB to YUC, only get 16-235 output.

haha yes, I was using a DVI/HDMI cable so I didn't have to suffer all the stuff ATi thought was good for us.

it was such a relief when I got rid of pstrip, their retarded Visual Basic drivers(and their 3 resident apps) to move to the green side of the force....native custom res support, no resident apps, CUDA, sharper PQ on both my HC3100 and my 19" CRT.

and the first ATi card I bought was an HD2600XT from Sapphire, but their engineers undervolted the GPU in 2D...I had to dig really deep on a chinese forum to find a fixed BIOS that would indeed feed 1.25V in 2D and not crash the card randomly at idle(black screen, end of story)....Sapphire, haha never again!

[el Filou]

Originally Posted by somy

We all know ATI's HDMI dongle outputs YUC 16-235 (it must do some RGB/YUC convert) all the time no matter what pixel format you choose in CCC

From where do we know that?
I admit I've given up on those stories over at AVSForum a long time ago because there was no consistency in the issues, but my ATI with the dongle and Cat. 9.11 (XP, 4650) certainly doesn't output YCC 16-235 all the time, it outputs the correct pixel format I tell it to output, except YCbCr is full range when it should be limited (I'm talking about the actual useful picture data, i.e. the desktop black should be at 16 and it's at 0).
Or dod I misunderstood what you said?

but with CCC 9.12 if I choose YCrCb 4:4:4 I do get 0-255 output from PowerDVD (yes, I have a test blu-ray to genertae 0-255 and I can monitor input lum from my projector), that's strange, isn't it?

Do you mean BTB and WTW is now preserved from the decoder output right until the HDMI output? That would be marvelous!
Damn and I decided to stop updating drivers at 9.11 because I had lost hope... will try 10.1 when it comes out.

This only works if YCrCb is chosen, RGB 4:4:4 only output 16-235 correctly(which is what they messed with in CCC 9.6-9.11).

Could you be more clear with that? What happens with YCbCr 4:2:2?

This makes me to think weather PowerDVD can output YCrCb directly to my projector

Mmmh, wouldn't be so optimistic. Like leeperry I don't think the internal video routines of ATI work in YCC. It's perfectly possible to ouput YCC with BTB and WTW even if the drivers convert to RGB and back.

[el Filou]

Originally Posted by leeperry

Sapphire, haha never again!

With you on that one! I had a X1300 from Sapphire that gave corrupted graphics when booting/coming out of standby 30% of the time. The bad joke was they released a BIOS update to fix the same problem for another X1300 model with different RAM, but not for mine, and they never listened to my complaints.

The 4650s with missing deinterlacing options were also from them (flashing a HIS BIOS fixed it).

To think that they are(/were?) ATI's main card manufacturer...

[somy]

Originally Posted by leeperry

haha yes, I was using a DVI/HDMI cable so I didn't have to suffer all the stuff ATi thought was good for us.

it was such a relief when I got rid of pstrip, their retarded Visual Basic drivers(and their 3 resident apps) to move to the green side of the force....native custom res support, no resident apps, CUDA, sharper PQ on both my HC3100 and my 19" CRT.

and the first ATi card I bought was an HD2600XT from Sapphire, but their engineers undervolted the GPU in 2D...I had to dig really deep on a chinese forum to find a fixed BIOS that would indeed feed 1.25V in 2D and not crash the card randomly at idle(black screen, end of story)....Sapphire, haha never again!

I cannot use a DVI/HDMI cable because I need audio streamed over HDMI to my AMP......
But if you don't use ATI HDMI dongle, it's correct that you're not restricted by only outputting 16-235 YUC.

[somy]

Originally Posted by el Filou

From where do we know that?
I admit I've given up on those stories over at AVSForum a long time ago because there was no consistency in the issues, but my ATI with the dongle and Cat. 9.11 (XP, 4650) certainly doesn't output YCC 16-235 all the time, it outputs the correct pixel format I tell it to output, except YCbCr is full range when it should be limited (I'm talking about the actual useful picture data, i.e. the desktop black should be at 16 and it's at 0).
Or dod I misunderstood what you said?

Do you mean BTB and WTW is now preserved from the decoder output right until the HDMI output? That would be marvelous!
Damn and I decided to stop updating drivers at 9.11 because I had lost hope... will try 10.1 when it comes out.

Could you be more clear with that? What happens with YCbCr 4:2:2?

Mmmh, wouldn't be so optimistic. Like leeperry I don't think the internal video routines of ATI work in YCC. It's perfectly possible to ouput YCC with BTB and WTW even if the drivers convert to RGB and back.

Do you use the official ATI HDMI dongle that also gives you sound over HDMI?

Yes, I can confirm the BTW and WTW is reserved if you play in PowerDVD, it outputs 0-255 and you need to set your TV/PJ to accept 16-235. This works if you set pixel format to YCbCr 4:4:4, I assume this works when you use DXVA in any player(which means 0-16 and 235-255 will NOT be cut off by ATI).
I didn't try it yet, but I guess it also works with 4:2:2. I tried RGB, and it only output 16-235.
I use the greyscale test pattern from AVSForum, and the image quality produced in PowerDVD is at the same level as FFDshow+MadVR, I don't know if this suggests anything

[somy]

BTW, you should definately update to 9.12, it fixes inconsistent black level issue so that your output level from PowerDVD, TMT, MPC-HC, KMP will be the same. Before 9.12, ATI has problems with outputting right black level for PowerDVD.