AVR discussion

[andy o]

Originally Posted by James

Why pay for the TruHD/DTS HD decoder twice (one in the player, one in the receiver)?

Well, it would be nice if they sold the high/midrange AVRs with the option to opt out of the "HD" decoding for cheaper, but alas, if you want the other features, you'll need to "pay" for the whole package.

[James]

Originally Posted by andy o

Well, it would be nice if they sold the high/midrange AVRs with the option to opt out of the "HD" decoding for cheaper, but alas, if you want the other features, you'll need to "pay" for the whole package.

Both Dolby & DTS appreciate that.

[SamuriHL]

Get a cheap Onkyo 576 then. Highest it decodes is DD+.

[RichB]

I have an Onkyo Pro 885 that does a great job decoding HD formats. I think you all have it backwards. It is better to have the AVR do the decoding and then you do not have to buy components that decode.

At this point, my personal preference is to have everything bitstream. As much as I like my PC's. I do not trust the mixer, audio drivers, etc to pass the signal (digital though it may be) unmolested.

- Rich

[James]

Originally Posted by RichB

At this point, my personal preference is to have everything bitstream. As much as I like my PC's. I do not trust the mixer, audio drivers, etc to pass the signal (digital though it may be) unmolested.

You're quite right - unfortunately they don't. But not the concept "let the player decode" is flawed - the current PC implementations are flawed.

[SamuriHL]

Correct. The player COULD do it properly and should. SlyPlayer certainly will. My PS3 certainly does. TMT, PowerDVD, WinDVD...they do not. Until SlyPlayer is released, bitstreaming is our best option.

[fuzz!]

Originally Posted by andy o

Well, it would be nice if they sold the high/midrange AVRs with the option to opt out of the "HD" decoding for cheaper, but alas, if you want the other features, you'll need to "pay" for the whole package.

Hehe yeah they really screw the customer with the catch-22 options they put forward.

Another annoyance is that in order to get more inputs (say 4 HDMI, 3 component) you have to pay for receivers with massive power ratings. I don't want a 300w/channel receiver - I just want more inputs - but you can't have one without the other!

On the subject of logical responsibility.. it shouldn't be the receivers job to amplify either

It should merely route inputs/outputs from sources to display and speakers.. the speaker system should decide what frequency cutoffs and amplification to apply based on a digital input.

Right now we all have a situation where the amp has no control over the subwoofer crossover which is incorrect, and speakers just get what they are given and rely on simple analog crossovers.

But then.. people already have a hard enough time running 1 cable to their speakers, let alone power AND data lines

Okay so I'm ranting totally off topic now.. Bring on SlyPlayer to shut me up!

[andy o]

Originally Posted by fuzz!

Hehe yeah they really screw the customer with the catch-22 options they put forward.

Another annoyance is that in order to get more inputs (say 4 HDMI, 3 component) you have to pay for receivers with massive power ratings. I don't want a 300w/channel receiver - I just want more inputs - but you can't have one without the other!

On the subject of logical responsibility.. it shouldn't be the receivers job to amplify either

It should merely route inputs/outputs from sources to display and speakers.. the speaker system should decide what frequency cutoffs and amplification to apply based on a digital input.

Right now we all have a situation where the amp has no control over the subwoofer crossover which is incorrect, and speakers just get what they are given and rely on simple analog crossovers.

But then.. people already have a hard enough time running 1 cable to their speakers, let alone power AND data lines

Okay so I'm ranting totally off topic now.. Bring on SlyPlayer to shut me up!

If you're being serious, I think you're going overboard with this. Having integrated hardware actually makes the stuff cheaper and more convenient, doesn't it? If you run any kind of "data" line to the speakers, what do you run? The PCM signal? Whatever you run, you're just moving the electronics from the AVR/amp to the speaker, making them more expensive.

Receivers I think do a good job of having all necessary stuff integrated. Routing, DSP, D/A and amp. Decoders are extra stuff, and sometimes redundant.

[fuzz!]

Originally Posted by andy o

If you're being serious, I think you're going overboard with this. Having integrated hardware actually makes the stuff cheaper and more convenient, doesn't it? If you run any kind of "data" line to the speakers, what do you run? The PCM signal? Whatever you run, you're just moving the electronics from the AVR/amp to the speaker, making them more expensive.

Receivers I think do a good job of having all necessary stuff integrated. Routing, DSP, D/A and amp. Decoders are extra stuff, and sometimes redundant.

Ahaha yeah it's overboard. The model in use currently prevails because its simple and cheap, and the gains from digital speakers aren't huge enough to justify the price/complexity.

But a number of companies (eg meridian already make digital loudspeakers.

[andy o]

Those aren't digital loudspeakers actually. They just moved the electronics to the speakers (unnecessarily, IMO, unless they have some dedicated stuff like room correction).

These are digital speakers.

The concept is simple; the least significant bit drives a tiny speaker driver, of whatever physical design is chosen; a value of "1" causes this driver to be driven full amplitude, a value of "0" causes it to be off. This allows for high efficiency in the amplifier, which at any time is either passing zero current, or required to drop the output voltage by zero volts, therefore in a theoretical ideal amplifier dissipating no power as heat at any time. The next least significant bit drives a speaker of twice the area (most often, but not necessarily, a ring around the previous driver), again to either full amplitude, or off. The next least significant bit drives a speaker of twice this area, and so on.

Other approaches are possible. For example instead of doubling the area of the next most significant diaphragm segment, it could simply be driven so it stroked twice as far. The digital priniciple of operation and attendant amplifier efficiency benefits would remain.