Blocked BD copy playback (Cinavia)

[SamuriHL]

Uhhhhhhhh, what??? I think you don't have a firm grasp on how CInavia works if that's your question. It's a watermark embedded in the audio stream that if it's detected, the player will then mute the audio (on BD backups) or immediately stop playback (on cinema recordings). Cinavia isn't something you WANT on your backup. It's not authorizing the disc for playback, it's entirely preventing it.

[Peer]

Originally Posted by fast eddie

@ Slysoft

The Cinavia that is built into the audio from the source Blu-ray disk, can the same audio with Cinavia be put in the back-up disk after the AnyDVD HD rip?

Since the Cinavia player is looking for the Cinavia it will have it, and the back-up copy should play.

In others words can AnyDVD HD rip the disk and keep Cinavia in the audio after the rip?

OK, you're already a huge step waaaay ahead of us.
Currently we're debating on how to get the cinavia watermark OFF the disc.
As soon as we have accomplished it, any suggestions on how to get it back ON are welcome, but not before then

[SamuriHL]

Originally Posted by Peer

OK, you're already a huge step waaaay ahead of us.
Currently we're debating on how to get the cinavia watermark OFF the disc.
As soon as we have accomplished it, any suggestions on how to get it back ON are welcome, but not before then

LOL!!! Um, yea.

[DaveO88]

maybe a silly question, but how one must fancy the watermark?
or if one is able to come the audiotrack demux and: maybe SurCode DTS new audiotrack provide or the watermark is preserved definitively

[SamuriHL]

Originally Posted by DaveO88

maybe a silly question, but how one must fancy the watermark?
or if one is able to come the audiotrack demux and: maybe SurCode DTS new audiotrack provide or the watermark is preserved definitively

I've re-encoded the audio various ways and the watermark signal survived them all. Simply re-encoding it won't work. It's embedded as part of the audio stream it seems.

[DaveO88]

Originally Posted by SamuriHL

I've re-encoded the audio various ways and the watermark signal survived them all. Simply re-encoding it won't work. It's embedded as part of the audio stream it seems.

damn

[Turtleggjp]

For those wanting and waiting for AnyDVD HD to remove this protection, consider what we have so far:

1. AACS. This encrypts just about all of the data on the disk. Without removing this, most of the data just looks random, and nothing can be done with it. Licensed players must remove this encryption in order to play the content. AnyDVD HD removes this encryption too.

2. BD+. This damages small parts of the data on the disk. Without removing this, most of the data is there to be played, but it is missing a few parts. When played back, there is visible damage to the video stream (and audio?). Licensed players remove this protection so that it can be played without this corruption. AnyDVD HD removes this protection too.

3. Cinavia Audio Watermark. This adds a supposedly unnoticeable echo to the decoded audio. Without removing this, the audio sounds just fine (assuming it is indeed inaudible). Licensed players DO NOT remove this watermark, but instead just look for it. If they find it, they act accordingly, halting playback or just muting audio. Since nothing out there is officially removing the watermark, it would be very hard for Slysoft or anyone else to come up with a way to remove it.

In the end, I agree that this is too big of a job for AnyDVD HD, and should be left to another tool. Instead of just replacing data on a sector by sector basis, removing this watermark will involve the complex task of analyzing large portions of the audio in its decoded form (which means a TrueHD and DTS-MA decoder is needed), removing the watermark from the decoded audio (if that is even possible without damaging it), and then re-encoding the audio again (which means a TrueHD and DTS-MA encoder is needed). Even if the just left the data as raw PCM, that would mean an even more complex re-authoring of the disc data would be needed. Not to mention, if you decode, alter, and re-encode a lossless codec there's no guarantee it will fit in the exact same space as the unaltered audio.

So the question is, will Slysoft attempt such a tool, can they succeed, and will they sell it as a separate product, or give it away for free? Only time will tell. For right now, the best thing to do is to simply avoid using Cinavia enabled players, and those looking to get into Blu Ray should carefully consider their playback device if they intend to play anything other than original discs.

Matt

[DukeOfUrl]

Originally Posted by Turtleggjp

Cinavia Audio Watermark. This adds a supposedly unnoticeable echo to the decoded audio. Without removing this, the audio sounds just fine (assuming it is indeed inaudible). Licensed players DO NOT remove this watermark, but instead just look for it. If they find it, they act accordingly, halting playback or just muting audio.

Matt don't you mean to say "if a player finds Cinavia but the disc is otherwise not AACS/BD+ protected, it is assumed to be a copy and thus halts/mutes..."?

Or maybe that was a given.

[andy o]

I don't think getting the watermark out would be feasible. I think the best bet right now is figuring out how the hell the player is detecting the watermark when bitstreaming. If it's doung a double duty of decoding + bitstreaming, that's freaking annoying and if implemented in software players would mean even more extra bloat (not that in hardware players is not bloat either). Freaking BD-J is more than enough bloat already.

If it's relying on something else though to detect Cinavia, like metadata markers, that would be pretty trivial to get rid of in comparison, I think.

[SamuriHL]

Um, what metadata markers exist in a re-encoded MP4 with AAC stereo audio? No, there's more to it than that. They seem to be able to detect the signal no matter what format the audio is in. Bitstreamed or not.