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Thread: Cinavia Protected Disks and Blu-ray Players (disks and players ONLY)

  1. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
    For the record I don't believe anyone from SlySoft has said one way or another what the first version of CloneBD will contain. *I* set the expectation that people should not expect the first version of CloneBD to be able to remove Cinavia. In any case, what they're failing to understand is that Cinavia is a watermark that is embedded in the analog signal before blu-ray mastering. (or DVD I guess). Meaning before the audio track is digitized and compressed into a TrueHD or DTS-HD MA track, the Cinavia watermark is already added. This signal survives EVERYTHING. Passing it through a tv is not going to magically get rid of it. The signal is still there, and if you play the recording from the tv on a Cinavia infected player such as a PS3, it WILL trigger the Cinavia error. So, they are missing the point completely, but, appear not to care. Whatever.
    Thanks for the clarification. My point was, the only people on the planet who may have removed a Cinavia watermark are CloneBD developers (and even that's not certain); removing the watermark is the ONLY way to completely defeat Cinavia.

    I suspect he knows it's an audio watermark, but does NOT fully comprehend the difference between merely working around it (as he's doing) and actually removing it (as CloneBD is supposed to do).

  2. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBBrittain View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. My point was, the only people on the planet who may have removed a Cinavia watermark are CloneBD developers (and even that's not certain); removing the watermark is the ONLY way to completely defeat Cinavia.
    Yup. And the whole Cinavia thing is blown out of proportion anyway. For me, my interest was merely curiosity as I found the protection rather interesting. Hence why I did so much testing when The Losers came out. I wanted to see how robust the damn thing was. And guess what? I found that it's pretty damn robust. Removing it isn't going to be a simple task. It's not the "simple signal" people think it is. It's actually quite the complex little beast. If anyone can remove it, SlySoft would be the ones to do so. But in terms of a real protection? Cinavia is pointless. The fatal flaw here is that BD as a spec was never finished before it was released. *IF* Cinavia was included from day 1, then as a protection it'd be pretty darn good. But the flaw is that it was added after the fact. Since they can't just "switch off" a whole generation of players, and since the protection itself relies on the player to have detection in it, they've tried to close the barn door after the horses already left. PS3 owners are the ones that really should be mad. They're the ones who are *ACTUALLY* affected by this. Everyone else, not touched by it.

    I suspect he knows it's an audio watermark, but does NOT fully comprehend the difference between merely working around it (as he's doing) and actually removing it (as CloneBD is supposed to do).
    Don't get me started again.
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  3. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
    Yup. And the whole Cinavia thing is blown out of proportion anyway. For me, my interest was merely curiosity as I found the protection rather interesting. Hence why I did so much testing when The Losers came out. I wanted to see how robust the damn thing was. And guess what? I found that it's pretty damn robust. Removing it isn't going to be a simple task. It's not the "simple signal" people think it is. It's actually quite the complex little beast. If anyone can remove it, SlySoft would be the ones to do so. But in terms of a real protection? Cinavia is pointless. The fatal flaw here is that BD as a spec was never finished before it was released. *IF* Cinavia was included from day 1, then as a protection it'd be pretty darn good. But the flaw is that it was added after the fact. Since they can't just "switch off" a whole generation of players, and since the protection itself relies on the player to have detection in it, they've tried to close the barn door after the horses already left. PS3 owners are the ones that really should be mad. They're the ones who are *ACTUALLY* affected by this. Everyone else, not touched by it.
    Absolutely. It's the main reason why the chief workaround (i.e., use a Cinavia-free player) even exists. And it really doesn't affect me either because (a) I almost never make copies--the main reasons I use AnyDVD HD are to defeat region coding and HDCP limitations (I can do HDCP if necessary but for technical reasons prefer not to), (b) I only own one Cinavia-infected title (The Social Network), (c) for unrelated reasons my PS3 went out the door about the same time Cinavia appeared, and (d) all my current players (SA and software) are Cinavia-free.

    The only way I'd ever be impacted is if TMT (3 and/or 5) adds Cinavia before SlyPlayer, or any other full-featured unlicensed BD player, gets out the door. (IIRC, some current unlicensed players can play BD movie files, but can't handle BD menus and may not be able to decode both lossless-audio codecs.) *IF* any licensed software player ever adds Cinavia (it's probably inevitable but it opens the risk of cracking Cinavia via memory dumps), it *would* affect original-disc playback with AnyDVD HD since it removes AACS; even that, however, would be just a minor annoyance for me since I doubt my SA will ever have Cinavia. (And since I know you use an unlicensed player with your MKVs, you're completely safe.)

    Don't get me started again.
    I wasn't trying to, but I won't. I think it's been run into the ground already.
    Last edited by RBBrittain; 5th June 2011 at 10:28. Reason: Expand

  4. #854
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBBrittain View Post
    The only way I'd ever be impacted is if TMT (3 and/or 5) adds Cinavia before SlyPlayer, or any other full-featured unlicensed BD player, gets out the door. *IF* any licensed software player ever adds Cinavia (it's probably inevitable but it opens the risk of cracking Cinavia via memory dumps), it *would* affect original-disc playback with AnyDVD HD since it removes AACS; even that, however, would be just a minor annoyance for me since I doubt my SA will ever have Cinavia. (And since I know you use an unlicensed player with your MKVs, you're completely safe.)
    You have no idea. My current setup is freaking amazing. I'm using JR's MC16 with LAV filters, PDVD11 video decoder (hahaha), ffdshow raw video decoder for subs, and madVR. I just generated 3dlut tables for madVR. Man oh man. What a setup! And with MC16 and LAV filters, I can open BD's direct from the disc (with AnyDVD running, OF COURSE). Cinavia never enters this picture. Hence if TMT or PDVD ever add Cinavia, oh well. There are solutions out there for those that want them.
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  5. #855
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    *sigh*

    Last edited by DrinkLyeAndDie; 5th June 2011 at 19:20.
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  6. #856
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    Green lantern, US.

  7. #857
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    Has anyone identified the frequency range of the watermark? I've tried doing some research but weeding through all the garbage is mind numbing.

    In order for the watermark to not interfere with the audio quality of the source material they would have to embed it in a frequency range that's inaudible to us correct? So therefore if we can find the frequency range of the watermark we could simply apply a filter to remove that frequency range throughout the entire audio file?

    Then again maybe they somehow embedded the watermark in an audible range and therefore simply doing a filter would be somewhat cumbersome and counter-productive.

    However, does anyone know of a program that could be run that could or would identify the watermark prior to streaming a file? I have a PS3 that obviously doesn't work well for many titles and a LG player that I haven't updated the firmware and plays all streams just fine.

    I tried stripping the audio from a Cinavia protected file and was going to run it through a filter and remove all the upper frequencies but my laptop is too damn slow to do the trial and error required to find the frequencies.


    Dregun

  8. #858
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    it is in a frequence we can't, here, the problem is that it isnt on the digital level as most things, but on analogue level
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  9. #859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ch3vr0n View Post
    it is in a frequence we can't, here, the problem is that it isnt on the digital level as most things, but on analogue level
    No, it's not in a frequency we can't hear - that would be silly, because a simple bandpass filter would kill the watermark.
    The grandfather of Cinavia, the DVDA-watermark was already smarter than that.

    It's in a frequency band that we can hear very well, that's the whole point of the watermark.

    Anyway - we're nearing a count of 1000 posts in this thread and the same questions are being asked over and over and over again. That's because nobody with a sane mind would read through all of this.

    I'd replace these 1000 posts with a short FAQ comprising all different ideas that have come up here so far (5? ) with the corresponding explanations why they won't work.
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  10. #860
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    But then they'd just start a new thread anyway. I'm not opposed to a Cinavia FAQ though. When I feel better I'll consider throwing a sticky post together and link it to these 2 discussion threads. That way when the brilliant people come up with the never before thought of method to compare two tracks and look for Cinavia, well, yea.
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