29th August 2010, 18:49
Results from my ClownBD Attempt to Back-up a Blu-ray main movie
I tried ClownBD and followed your suggestions. ClownBD is very straight forward. At the conclusion, in the Remux Location tsMuxerR Output folder I had a single m2ts file: eac3to.m2ts. Good news is that my LG 590 blu-ray player and PowerDVD could play it and I got perfect video. The bad news is that there was no audio. Confusing because the file is shown as an MPEG-2 transport stream. MediaInfo says the video stream is AVC (High@L4.1) and AC-3 audio stream. My LG 590 blu-ray as well as PowerDVD recognize AVC video and AC-3 audio streams. So why no audio I wonder? Under “Container” in MediaInfo is says “BDAV”: 23.4 GB. What is BDAV? Blu-ray audio/video? Any idea why I get video and no audio? The attached Word document shows screen shots and notes on everything I did in ClownBD. Can you see anything amiss?
I just discovered that Word.doc attachments are limited to 19.5 KB. The attachment I wanted to send you is 144 KB as a result of the screen shots. Any other way to get it to you? Thanks for your help.
31st August 2010, 18:00
You could upload any file to Rapidshare and then PM me the link.
It's difficult to know what's going wrong without seeing what you have done.
My guess is that you haven't selected the audio correctly: I often get confused over which boxes to tick and have sometimes ended up with no audio if I try to get fancy with processing. The key seems to be to tick the primary audio box, not the core, and use the Core option in the "Output Audio Format" section, if you only want the core.
I find the simplest approach is often the best when first testing capability: choosing primary video, audio and subtitle. When you start selecting core audio, or converting audio to diffrerent formats (which it seems you have done if you have AC-3 as an output), then you are introducing multiple steps where things can go awry.
I strongly suggest creating an m2ts with original video, audio and subtitle and seeing if your player can handle it as a first step. If there are issues with HD audio codec handling, then look into selecting the core audio or converting it (ie by ticking primary audio and choosing Core as the option instead of Unconverted).
ClownBD creates temporary elementary streams in your nominated folder, before muxing them into the m2ts. Look in that folder to make sure that you have a valid audio file of roughly the right size and expected type: you should be able to play a standalone AC-3 file to ensure it works. Also, when ClownBD is processing the file, it should throw up a DOS window and show you what it is doing: make sure it is extracting an audio file and there are no error messages. Automation is good, but you do need to monitor what it is doing to ensure all goes well.
1st September 2010, 07:51
If all you want is to take the original video (without re-encoding) and put it in an mkv container, then I would recommend HDDVD/Bluray Stream Extractor. This will strip out the main video, audio, subtitles, and chapters that you want for you movie only copy.
Then MKVMerge will accept all of that input and put it in an MKV container. All of this takes about 30 to 45 minutes. You can shave off some minutes if you rip the bluray to an ISO first and work with that as opposed to feeding HD Stream Extractor directly from the disk.
Both tools are free, will get you what you want (movie only MKV) and don't take very long.[/QUOTE]
How do you use HDDVD/Bluray Stream Extractor? When u open it it says to use with eac3?
2nd September 2010, 18:52
YaniD: Using Rapid Share, I uploaded a Word doc with screen shots and notes with what I did in ClownBD. I went with the default audio. After reading your messages, I tried ticking other combinations for audio. I was unable to find the secret for success. Can you please take a look at what I did and suggest what I should check for audio? The link for the Word document is:
Thanks for your help.
3rd September 2010, 01:00
Tedd: your document shows that you selected the TrueHD audio track. This is an HD audio codec, which in this case also includes a standard AC-3 audio track interleaved with it.
In my experience, standalone players will often not play HD codecs in standalone files due to DRM concerns (ie the studios think that standalone files are potentially copies that infringe their copyright and they try to ensure that players will not play them properly). In the unlikely event that they do play them, they are more likely to downconvert to stereo for output. From your results, I would say your player is sticking to the DRM rules.
The next thing you could try is using the same settings as before, but selecting "Core" for the "Output Audio Format". This should extract the interleaved AC-3 soundtrack and include it in the m2ts. See how that goes. You may need to play about with soundtrack selection as I'm not sure exactly which boxes should be ticked to get the core (ie you might need to tick the "embedded AC-3" sub box instead of the TrueHD box). Check the messages in the DOS window that appears during eac3to processing to see if the correct soundtrack format is being created.
If that doesn't work either, then your player is likely a stickler for the DRM rules and may not ever play m2ts files properly.
In that case, perhaps you could try the suggestion from another poster and create mkv files instead and see if they work any better. Mkv is a container that was not originally supported, so you may not fare any better.
Whilst it is more complicated, you could use eac3to (perhaps in conjunction with a GUI), to convert the TrueHD soundtrack to LPCM (extract it as .w64) and then mux that into an m2ts with TsMuxer. LPCM is not an HD codec and hopefully your player will play that correctly. The downside is that LPCM is not compressed at all and takes up considerable extra space, but if it works, it may be your only option to use m2ts container and have the full HD audio on playback. Eac3to will handle decoding of TrueHD soundtracks just fine, but it needs other commercial decoders to handle DTS-HD.
From your Word document, I guess ClownBD does not like non-standard characters in folder names. If possible, I would also suggest you use different physical drives for the (eac3to + temporary files) and the tsmuxer output, since it will be trying to read and write a huge amount of data to the same physical drive with your current setup.
I should have asked how you are outputting the audio from the LG player: as raw/bitstream or LPCM via HDMI, analogue multichannel, or digital audio via coaxial or optical. If raw/bitstream, then you won't get any audio out of a receiver if the receiver can't decode the HD codecs.
You have to ensure that not only can the player handle the codecs within the container, but that it is outputting something the receiver can handle: that's two places at least that things can go awry.
Last edited by YaniD; 3rd September 2010 at 03:35.
4th September 2010, 06:45
I tried backing up the blu-ray disc "Nine" using ClownBD. This time TruHD audio was not listed as one of the audio choices after the scan. I did not change the audio defaults.
Please see attached screen shot at Rapid Share. http://rapidshare.com/files/41700085...udio_Nine.docx
The video and audio played perfectly on my LG 590 blu-ray player. The down side is that there is no chapter search or fast forward. That's a big limiting factor because it forces my wife and I to watch the entire movie in one sitting, which we almost never do. There is no way to find where you left off on without starting the movie again from the beginning. Puzzling that it the chapters are gone. I made sure "Chapters" had a check mark in ClownBD. Any ideas?
Since I was on a roll, I tried backing up another blu-ray disk using ClownBD. The blu-ray disc was "Whiteout". My Blu-ray player displayed an error message "Video format not supported". Using MediaInfo I checked to see what codec was used for the video stream. It was "VC-1". I know from past experience that my blu-ray player does not recognize VC-1 video streams so this was no surprise. I'm guessing the only way to handle a VC-1 video stream is to re-encode it to an AVC, which I know my blu-ray player recognizes. Hate that because it takes between 18 and 24 hours to accomplish.
In your message, you asked how I was outputting the audio. I'm using a Onkyo receiver and HDMI cable from the receiver to the TV.
5th September 2010, 02:52
Unfortunately, m2ts files do not support chapter playback: that information is held elsewhere in a Bluray structure and is not used when playing a single m2ts file.
If chapter and FF is important to you, perhaps you should try the mkv container as it supports chapters (although whether your player will honour them is another matter).
But firstly, I fear that you are grappling with multiple variables that are confusing the situation. Your player may only support the output of certain audio codecs from m2ts, whilst your receiver may only support input of a subset of those codecs: it's important to know what each device will support before throwing things randomly at it.
For example, my receiver will only decode multichannel LPCM, DTS and DD via HDMI, but not any of the HD audio codecs (ie DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD). Consequently, if I want audio, I have to ensure my player only sends the audio the receiver can support. Fortunately my player can decode the HD audio codecs to multichannel LPCM, for output, so it is not an issue as the receiver will accept that. If it could not do this, then I would not be able to hear any of the HD audio codecs.
I think you first need to determine what both player and receiver will support technically and then determine whether the player can output something compatible from an m2ts or mkv. It is possible that settings in your player might enable output of multichannel LPCM for all input audio codecs and that your receiver might accept multichannel LPCM. I would suggest looking into this and then testing out the m2ts files that wouldn't play audio to see if this rectifies the situation.
Your player has to support VC-1 playback as that is one of the video codecs used with Bluray titles. Whether it will support VC-1 when played back from an m2ts or mkv standalone container file is another matter.
The Bluray title "Nine" has AVC video and DTS-HD MA audio. Since you were able to play this correctly, it sounds like your player will support these 2 codecs.
From your other title experience, it sounds like you might have difficulty viewing VC-1 or listening to TrueHD.
The problem is that Bluray titles can have a mix of VC-1 and AVC video, plus DTS-HD MA and TrueHD audio, so you may find only a percentage of them will work properly with your current configuration.
Since chapter and FF is important to you, my suggestion would be to create an mkv file with "Nine" and see if that gives you everything you want (since you know it plays okay as an m2ts, but without chapters).
If this works, drop m2ts as it will never give you all the features you want and concentrate on mkv and getting VC-1 and TrueHD to give you an output. This may simply require some configuration in your player for audio or worst case, converting TrueHD to multichannel LPCM. Should you still have problems with VC-1 video from an mkv or m2ts, then the only solutions would include recoding VC-1 to AVC or use a different media player for those mkv files containing VC-1.
I understand that the PS3 will also not play VC-1 from a standalone file, so it is possible LG and Sony are both deliberately not honouring that codec.
Last edited by YaniD; 5th September 2010 at 03:01.
6th September 2010, 18:38
YanID: Thank you for all the words of wisdom and benefit of your experience. In response to the last two paragaphs of your post:
1. To create an mkv file as you suggest, should I take the m2ts file created by ClownBD and use MKVmerge to create an mkv file? Is that the approach you would recommend?
2. "this may simply require some configuration in your player for audio". My blu-ray player? I wasn't aware I could change configuration for audio in my blu-ray player. I'll pull the instruction manual and check it out.
6th September 2010, 19:08
1. Whilst I haven't used it, HDDVD/Bluray Stream Extractor or one of the other GUIs for use with eac3to would be best for creating an mkv from the original source. ClownBD is basically a GUI for eac3to and TsMuxer, whilst the others are GUIs for eac3to and mkvmerge (I think). I use a manual approach with eac3to (to create the elementary streams) and then mkvmerge (from mkvtoolnix) to mux them together into an mkv, but the GUIs are supposed to make it easier.
Originally Posted by Tedd
2. Depending on features, your Bluray player should have a number of audio configuration settings, the primary one being whether to output the raw/bitstream audio or decode it to multichannel LPCM before being output on HDMI. It may also be possible to output plain DD or DTS via optical or coax SPDIF to the receiver, depending on the "core" codec in the soundtrack, assuming the complete soundtrack was retained when you create the mkv.
As I said, what you get out of your system will depend on the capabilities of each device, the configuration of each device and the source: that's a lot of variables to consider and not something that necessarily works straight out of the box.
8th October 2010, 11:48
How do you use HDDVD/Bluray Stream Extractor? When u open it it says to use with eac3?[/QUOTE]
Originally Posted by andjayik
I noticed that hddvd extracter only has audio in ac3 only? What if i wanted to keep the hd audio? If it was dtshd atleast i would like dts not ac3?
Tags for this Thread