Blocked BD copy playback (Cinavia)

Discussion in 'High Definition Software' started by skypx, Jul 13, 2010.

  1. skypx

    skypx Well-Known Member

    Hey guys, not sure if anyone is aware of this but Cinavia DRM protection will allow the BD to be backed up, however; it will mute the audio after about 20 minutes of playback. It's actually kind of freaky, for sure The Losers is protected and I think (not sure) Repo Men. Good luck.
     
  2. Adbear

    Adbear Well-Known Member

    How do you know those 2 are protected by this?
     
  3. skypx

    skypx Well-Known Member

    A friend of mine made a backup of The Losers, played it via PS3, and after 20 minutes the audio was muted. A message was displayed stating content is protected with Cinavia. Just thought I would give the SlySoft team a heads up.
     
  4. Peer

    Peer SlySoft Development Team Staff Member

    That is known and not so much of a problem.
    I'm quite confident that before this type of protection spreads widely, our SlyPlayer is ready and that will play that kind of content.
    Or any other player that doesn't have to follow the blu-ray rules - after all, it requires the player identify the protection and actively mute the sound, it's not implicit.
     
  5. skypx

    skypx Well-Known Member

    Cool! Thanks Peer. :) :rock:
     
  6. Stormcrow

    Stormcrow Well-Known Member

    Can this protection be present on domestic BD disks?

    I understood this was an audio watermark which was included for example on cinema media, to prevent cinema camcorder or other copying / playback of 'professional' media on compliant domestic devices.

    I can't see how any BD intended for domestic use could contain this, nor can I see how a copy could have this watermark unless the original did too.

    Does the OP have access to some 'professional-only' BD release which is not available to the public? Do such 'professional-only' BDs exist?

    --
    SC
     
  7. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    Does this mean that the only way to watch such a disc is with SlyPlayer or with some specific models of hardware players? In other words, from what you are saying, it makes it sound like certain hardware players will not be able to play a disc backed up by AnyDVD when it is protected by Cinavia. (???)
     
  8. RBBrittain

    RBBrittain Well-Known Member

    That's how Cinavia describes its technology on its website. To block copies without blocking originals, the Cinavia code would have to be inserted during the copying process; I don't see how that's possible.

    Unless it's somehow tied to the BD-ROM Mark (the uncopyable signature on every pressed BD), there's no way this technology could be used on pressed BDs for the consumer market. And if it were tied to the BD-ROM Mark, we'd know instantly as any ORIGINAL with such protection couldn't be played back on any PC with AnyDVD HD active, since AnyDVD HD presents the disc to Windows as a BD-R, which shouldn't have a BD-ROM Mark. (Of course, SlyPlayer would get around that; CloneBD could also strip Cinavia codes during the remuxing process.)

    I suspect the OP's friend had either (a) a pre-release BD intended for professionals that was Cinavia-protected to prevent playback by the general public, or (b) an illegally-produced copy (i.e., camcorded).
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2010
  9. Peer

    Peer SlySoft Development Team Staff Member

    Yes, that's what it means - unless we can remove that stuff from the disc, but I'm not going to speculate on the feasability of that now.

    No, the "code" is on the original as well - the players will only play along as long as the disc is fully AACS protected. It's as simple as that.
     
  10. skypx

    skypx Well-Known Member

    Well, I'm sorry to say the mystery of Cinavia continues. When the backup was played back on a PS3 attached to a receiver (HDMI DD 5.1), the audio was muted after 20 minutes (did not matter if it was FF or waited the entire time), but when played back via PS3 attached to a TV (via HDMI stereo), the sound was not muted for the entire film.

    I am sorry if it seems as if I am being cryptic, but I don't have any additional information to share, not because I don't want to share the information, but simply because I am completely baffled by their protection. The only fact I've been able to gather so far is, it is in The Losers and Repo Men, and no, I am not sure what region the original disc is from. Sorry. :confused:
     
  11. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    Well than that seals it then. If Blu-Ray discs employ this technology, we're screwed, and I am sure eventually all discs will have it, seeing as to how all other forms of BD protection have been defeated.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  12. Adbear

    Adbear Well-Known Member

    That's what they said about AACS and BD+, I'm sure if it becomes an issue someone will work out how to remove it
     
  13. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Moderator (en)

    Do I really have to warn you about language? :policeman:
     
  14. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    Really? Holy cow, I didn't realize this. I can't remember the last time I was on a "no swearing" forum. :(

    Anyway, this looks really bad. http://www.avforums.com/forums/ps3/1249332-cinavia-drm-ps3s-other-blu-ray-players.html

    Apparently they are making Cinavia audio signal recognition part of the AACS agreement, which means that EVERY playback device will have to employ it. :(
     
  15. DrinkLyeAndDie

    DrinkLyeAndDie Moderator (en)

    It falls under the scope of a few of the forum rules. We do have people of all ages reading the forums. :)

    It sounds annoying and problematic, yes. I'm not, however, going to let it bother me... yet. I'll be interested in Peers' opinions once he's had more time to really look at things.
     
  16. Adbear

    Adbear Well-Known Member

    According to the site linked to it's only shown up on a DVD screener
     
  17. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    That was posted in May. Scroll down and check the last post in the thread from July, a user says the Blu-Ray release has it.
     
  18. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    http://www.verance.com/AdminSavR/news/news_item.php?news_id=42

     
  19. florinsasu

    florinsasu Well-Known Member

    I did a bit of research on Cinavia:

    It seems that CAM versions of Wolfman & Losers trigger a Message 1 on PS3.
    Bdrip version of Losers trigger a Message 3 on PS3.

    So far no player that I tested on, other than PS3, know about Cinavia.
     
  20. RBBrittain

    RBBrittain Well-Known Member

    I think that's actually what I was saying--the code has to be on the original as well as the copy, since no BD copier is gonna cooperate with Cinavia. :D Therefore, for Cinavia to protect only copies it has to work in conjunction with another component of BD copy protection. (I said BD-ROM Mark; you said AACS--same concept.)

    Assuming Cinavia works with AACS, since AnyDVD HD breaks AACS, Cinavia (edit: if found in PC software players) would make even original discs unplayable on PCs running AnyDVD HD. Thus, if Cinavia were employed widely, we'd know about it almost as quickly as Avatar's BD+ update. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2010