Blocked BD copy playback (Cinavia)

Discussion in 'High Definition Software' started by skypx, Jul 13, 2010.

  1. James

    James SlySoft Development Team Staff Member

    I vote for 2). But it will be extremely difficult (impossible?) to do this inside a sector based driver like AnyDVD.sys.
  2. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator (en)

    I don't consider that a valid work around. You need to have a clean DVD source to pull that off. And you lose HD audio which, to some people like me, is unacceptable. However, if you do have a non-Cinavia infested audio track, muxing it in is pretty simple if not laborious.

    -Demux all the streams using ClownBD (uncheck Use ImgBurn and Use tsMuxer options)
    -Extract the AC3 or DTS track from your DVD. I use VideoReDo for this task. There are many ways to demux a DVD.
    -Load tsMuxer, add the video stream from the BD, the audio stream from the DVD, and the subtitle streams from the BD. Load the chapters.txt and copy each chapter into the Blu-ray tab in tsMuxer.
    -Output as a BD folder structure

    Oh hell no. I go for what's behind door number 2. Use an HTPC and a player that couldn't care less about Cinavia.

    Guys/Gals - It must be pointed out again and again....*IF YOUR PLAYER DOESN'T SUPPORT IT, IT DOES NOT AFFECT YOU*. It's as simple as that.
  3. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator (en)

    Yikes. Um, if I get a chance I'll see if I can try that. I have quite a few tests queued up for this stupid protection already. :)
  4. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator (en)

    Well then I'll scratch that test off my todo list then. :D
  5. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator (en)

    Sounds like a job for......Super CloneBD! :D
  6. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator (en)

    MP4 reencoded to stereo AAC audio using handbrake....

    Audio outputs temporarily muted.....blah blah blah. So, reencoding is confirmed to NOT work. Really, no surprise here at all. I'm streaming the MP4 over my new gigabit network. And yes, the PS3 "learns" detected it faster this time by about 30 seconds. I have another test someone asked me to try and then I'm going to shelve this project for a while. It's a bit tedious. However, just know that if your player detects Cinavia, for now, you are screwed on any backup that you make from an original that contains the watermark.
  7. Clams

    Clams Well-Known Member

    I dissagree. It might call for a serious mod to the AnyDVD ripper though. Or perhaps a free companion applet to go with AnyDVD to run the output through in order to remove this new copy protection.
    But marketing wise, you never want to make an AnyDVD customer pay for an add on product to remove more strange copy protections.

  8. fast eddie

    fast eddie Well-Known Member

    @ SamuriHL

    Does your retail version of the Blu-ray disk have the Cinavia logo on it?

    Or the Cinavia logo anywhere on the package or wrapings?

    The rental version did not have any Cinavia logo anywhere.
  9. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator (en)

    Not that I can see anywhere.
  10. fast eddie

    fast eddie Well-Known Member

    @ Slysoft

    The Cinavia that is built into the audio from the source Blu-ray disk, can the same audio with Cinavia be put in the back-up disk after the AnyDVD HD rip?

    Since the Cinavia player is looking for the Cinavia it will have it, and the back-up copy should play.

    In others words can AnyDVD HD rip the disk and keep Cinavia in the audio after the rip?

  11. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator (en)

    Uhhhhhhhh, what??? I think you don't have a firm grasp on how CInavia works if that's your question. :) It's a watermark embedded in the audio stream that if it's detected, the player will then mute the audio (on BD backups) or immediately stop playback (on cinema recordings). Cinavia isn't something you WANT on your backup. It's not authorizing the disc for playback, it's entirely preventing it.
  12. Peer

    Peer SlySoft Development Team Staff Member

    OK, you're already a huge step waaaay ahead of us.
    Currently we're debating on how to get the cinavia watermark OFF the disc.
    As soon as we have accomplished it, any suggestions on how to get it back ON are welcome, but not before then :)
  13. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator (en)

    LOL!!! Um, yea. :D
  14. DaveO88

    DaveO88 Well-Known Member

    maybe a silly question, but how one must fancy the watermark?
    or if one is able to come the audiotrack demux and: maybe SurCode DTS new audiotrack provide or the watermark is preserved definitively
  15. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator (en)

    I've re-encoded the audio various ways and the watermark signal survived them all. Simply re-encoding it won't work. It's embedded as part of the audio stream it seems.
  16. DaveO88

    DaveO88 Well-Known Member

    damn :bang:
  17. Turtleggjp

    Turtleggjp Well-Known Member

    For those wanting and waiting for AnyDVD HD to remove this protection, consider what we have so far:

    1. AACS. This encrypts just about all of the data on the disk. Without removing this, most of the data just looks random, and nothing can be done with it. Licensed players must remove this encryption in order to play the content. AnyDVD HD removes this encryption too.

    2. BD+. This damages small parts of the data on the disk. Without removing this, most of the data is there to be played, but it is missing a few parts. When played back, there is visible damage to the video stream (and audio?). Licensed players remove this protection so that it can be played without this corruption. AnyDVD HD removes this protection too.

    3. Cinavia Audio Watermark. This adds a supposedly unnoticeable echo to the decoded audio. Without removing this, the audio sounds just fine (assuming it is indeed inaudible). Licensed players DO NOT remove this watermark, but instead just look for it. If they find it, they act accordingly, halting playback or just muting audio. Since nothing out there is officially removing the watermark, it would be very hard for Slysoft or anyone else to come up with a way to remove it.

    In the end, I agree that this is too big of a job for AnyDVD HD, and should be left to another tool. Instead of just replacing data on a sector by sector basis, removing this watermark will involve the complex task of analyzing large portions of the audio in its decoded form (which means a TrueHD and DTS-MA decoder is needed), removing the watermark from the decoded audio (if that is even possible without damaging it), and then re-encoding the audio again (which means a TrueHD and DTS-MA encoder is needed). Even if the just left the data as raw PCM, that would mean an even more complex re-authoring of the disc data would be needed. Not to mention, if you decode, alter, and re-encode a lossless codec there's no guarantee it will fit in the exact same space as the unaltered audio.

    So the question is, will Slysoft attempt such a tool, can they succeed, and will they sell it as a separate product, or give it away for free? Only time will tell. For right now, the best thing to do is to simply avoid using Cinavia enabled players, and those looking to get into Blu Ray should carefully consider their playback device if they intend to play anything other than original discs.

  18. DukeOfUrl

    DukeOfUrl Well-Known Member

    Matt don't you mean to say "if a player finds Cinavia but the disc is otherwise not AACS/BD+ protected, it is assumed to be a copy and thus halts/mutes..."?

    Or maybe that was a given. ;)
  19. andy o

    andy o Well-Known Member

    I don't think getting the watermark out would be feasible. I think the best bet right now is figuring out how the hell the player is detecting the watermark when bitstreaming. If it's doung a double duty of decoding + bitstreaming, that's freaking annoying and if implemented in software players would mean even more extra bloat (not that in hardware players is not bloat either). Freaking BD-J is more than enough bloat already.

    If it's relying on something else though to detect Cinavia, like metadata markers, that would be pretty trivial to get rid of in comparison, I think.
  20. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator (en)

    Um, what metadata markers exist in a re-encoded MP4 with AAC stereo audio? :bang: No, there's more to it than that. They seem to be able to detect the signal no matter what format the audio is in. Bitstreamed or not.