Cinavia, Feb, 1, 2012 and forwards

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by fast eddie, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. fast eddie

    fast eddie Well-Known Member

    Press Releases / Announcements
    AACS Announces Schedule for the Inclusion of Cinavia in Blu-ray Disc Players

    Verance’s watermark-based content protection technology becomes mandatory

    July 20, 2011 — SAN DIEGO — AACS LA, LLC today announced that, pursuant to the provisions of its license agreements with Blu-ray Disc player manufacturers, the inclusion of the Cinavia technology from Verance Corporation will become mandatory for all Blu-ray Disc players as of February 1, 2012.

    Cinavia, the standard for protection of filmed entertainment content, employs Verance watermarking technologies to extend the existing content security architecture for Blu-ray Disc to protect against the use of unauthorized copies of commercial movies, such as those originating from in-theater camcording or “ripped” Blu-ray Discs or DVDs. Cinavia has been licensed by major motion picture studios including Universal Studios, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Warner Bros. Entertainment, and Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation and employed in numerous theatrical, Blu-ray Disc, and DVD releases.

    Cinavia has been an element of AACS’ architecture since June 2009, when AACS LA issued their final technical specifications and license agreements. Since then, Cinavia has been licensed by dozens of Blu-ray Disc player and component manufacturers, integrated into leading Blu-ray Disc player chipsets, and deployed in over 45 million Blu-ray Disc players sold to consumers.

    “Consumers love Blu-ray Disc for the great entertainment experience that it delivers and Verance is thrilled to have this opportunity to support its growth,” said chief executive, Nil Shah. “The Cinavia deployments to date have demonstrated a striking efficacy at increasing the market for legitimate Blu-ray Disc media as well as digital entertainment platforms incorporated in Blu-ray Disc players. We look forward to bringing our solution to more participants in the Blu-ray Disc market.”

    To facilitate timely and cost-effective deployment of Cinavia by player manufacturers, certified Cinavia components are currently available from Verance and numerous Blu-ray Disc component vendors and Verance is offering license fee waivers to manufacturers of players that implement Cinavia in accordance with Verance’s preferred screening specifications.

    For more information about licensing Cinavia, please call 858.202.2800 or email
  2. Ch3vr0n

    Ch3vr0n Translator nl

    Damn, that means slysoft better get to work (if they arent already) on cracking that stuff. So i can remove it from my backups that currently are infect in the event that my player MIGHT stop working one day and i have to get a new infected player. Oh and i hope that mandatory or not, not all manufacturers will jump on the bandwagon on 1/2/12
  3. whatever_gong82

    whatever_gong82 Well-Known Member

    First Cinavia, then the Sopa crap.

    Man, the movie studios are getting to the point where I think that they'll irritate me enough to not buy their stuff, and I'll just read books instead!!

    If all of this goes through, I hope that Hollywood enjoys seeing all of their profits go down the drain, because I won't support them blocking my right to back up media that I legally own.
  4. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member

    Things are not looking good. I guess back to stone age before movie were available.
  5. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member

    I am not sure since Verance is offering license fee waivers to manufacturers of players that implement Cinavia in accordance with Verance’s preferred screening specifications. Manufacturers may want to do it to save some money. Especially if this limited time offer.

    I wonder after this date will all studios start adding Cinavia to their release or not. Logically I think they would since they will know almost all players are cinavia supported know.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  6. fast eddie

    fast eddie Well-Known Member

    What bothers me is ALL of your existing Blu-ray back-ups won't play on a new Cinavia infected player due to the removal of the AACS on the back-ups. The new Cinavia infected Blu-ray players require the AACS to be intact in order not to trip the Cinavia infection.

    BDMV-REC might be a short work around, but the software companies really need to GET GOING on a good method of the removal of the Cinavia infection or they are going to be loosing a lot of business and money. Ripping a Blu-ray disk could become useless as we do it today with the AACS removed.

    It looks like a good stockpile of non-cinavia Blu-ray players will be a must, and the cost of a non-cinavia Blu-ray player will be going thru the roof and become liquid gold.

    I have stockpiled four non-cinavia players. Come on Slysoft lets get this watermark removed. :mad:

    I know other DVD fans that have hundreds and thousands of back-up disks that may become useless when there are no more Cinavia free Blu-ray players around :(
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  7. fast eddie

    fast eddie Well-Known Member

    Yes, I would think so too, Cinavia on the disk to match Cinavia on the Blu-ray player.
  8. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member

    I don't think so other than PS3 and some selected player, none support BDMV-REC based media. As such this is not really solution at all.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  9. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member

    Just a quick question would software player would be affected. Such as Arcsoft TMT, cyberlink powerdvd and Corel windvd.
  10. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member

    Yes, Provided the title is not protected by BD+ as well. If it is all the effort of hack and changing firmware or replace Rom will go useless.

    Due to the way BD+ works. The only option I can think of is to remove AACS and BD+ and then play on hacked player.
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  11. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member

    I think software will be affected with this. Even if it limited Arcsoft, Cyberlink and Corel. They are considered to be proper blu-ray player as such the have to comply by AACS policy. If they don't they will likely to loose there license to use blu-ray specs.

    It doesn't matter if they are software or hardware based.
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  12. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member

    Maybe Jason from Arcsoft might have some information about this. It's worth a try to ask him instead?
  13. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member

    Theroy is generally easier than implemenatation. With that being said how program will know what to look far. One way or another I think it will cat and mouse game just like virus vs antivirus programs.
  14. CueHD

    CueHD Active Member

    Many hardware manufacturers don't encrypt their firmware. A before and after Cinavia firmware might shed some light.
  15. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    I guess this begs the question... what happens if someone makes a Blu-Ray player in March 2012 and it doesn't detect Cinavia? Who sues them?
  16. PrincipalityFusion

    PrincipalityFusion Well-Known Member

    This isn't really a surprise

    1. I'ts not like we weren't aware that this was the plan. Cinavia was in a trial run and is now moving into the full implementation phase.
    2. Cinavia is basically offering the license to use it's technology for free to the player manufacturers if they are willing to implement it according to Verance's guidelines. It remains to be seen just how restrictive these "guidelines" are and whether some players will just wait to be sued bedore implementing Cinavia.
    3. Because the Cinavia signal is mastered with the sound itself, cancelling out the Cinavia signal is like cancelling out the sound itself. There are multiple threads on here discussing the merits of doing this, but just suffice it to say that it's not really a good idea. Plus, you need a decoder implemented in your solution to even begin to do something like that. Since DTS Master has no free market decoder, well.......
    4. There are already players on the market that detect Cinavia and as of yet, their firmware has not been hacked. Not to say it will never be as i do think reverse engineering the firmware will be a part of defeating Cinavia, but hardware manufacuturers are getting smarter about detecting hacked firmware on thier players and it's just getting too dangerous to run a player on hacked firmware (bricked players, blacklisted players, etc).
    5. HTPCs in my opinion, provide the best solution outside of defeating Cinavia, to the user to play back high definition rips. Software players will get better, there are a number of them. And i'm guessing that the incentive to get better developers into the fray is growing.

    So in short, while Cinavia is an issue, as it does hinder playback of blu-ray rips and i'm sure there will always be some unintended consequences for the "normal" consumer, it's not the end of the world.

    If you're backing up Blurays, you're probably savy enough to put together a software solution to be able to play those backups.
  17. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator (en)

    The piece of the puzzle that's really missing is what movie studios will actually use cinavia on their discs. So far that's fairly limited. We have what, 35 some odd discs that contain it at the moment? Most of which are sony or warner bros. I know the studios have all signed on to cinavia but it hasn't been widely adopted yet. Maybe once all the players support it they'll start adding it but one would think all the studios would have put out their own test disc by now. So we'll have to wait and see how that plays out.

    Still, the best defense is a playback solution that can't be forced to adopt detection. Commercial software players like tmt and pdvd are out. Mpc-hc + lav filters + madvr + anydvd makes a compelling case.

    Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
  18. Pelvis Popcan

    Pelvis Popcan Well-Known Member

    I'm keeping my eye on Oppo, as I know they have always been very strongly opposed to Cinavia, not to mention the great players they make.
  19. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator (en)

    Of all the player mfg's out there, Oppo does seem to be rather resistant to adding Cinavia detection. That's a good thing cause it means they care more about their customers (and their bottom line, obviously) than they do about the wishes of the AACSLA. That being said, they are licensed, so, they WILL have to comply at some point. But I rather doubt they'll retrofit existing players with Cinavia. They might, and I wouldn't buy one on my gut feeling that they won't ;), but, it's unlikely.
  20. SamuriHL

    SamuriHL Moderator (en)

    I wouldn't bother. People seem to underestimate what it takes to deal with Cinavia. It will require a serious effort from the "experts" who are motivated by funding. ;) IOW, the ones who get paid to do this stuff. I've seen enough about Cinavia to know it's not going to be solved by simple tricks and hacks. It needs a SERIOUS reverse engineering effort. What people aren't understanding is that it's not just a simple signal. It adapts. Nasty little protection.